An old hand I’d like peoples opinions on.

[FreeZey]

The game:
Swansea. Texas Hold’em. Pot Limit. £10 Entry, £10 Rebuy, 700chips. Freeze out after 1 hour.

I’d been playing for about 2 hours. I can’t remember the exact numbers but about 50 people entered and about 25 were left.

I was dealing and picked up pocket aces. Blinds were now 100 and 200. I noticed the lady to my left was short stacked with only about 800 chips and was looking to make a move. I figured if enough people called the blinds she’d go all in so when it came to me I just called and she did indeed re-raise all in off the small blind.

Everyone folded except a player in roughly the middle seat and me.

Flop came out [2] [8] [9]. I think, I can’t remember exactly but they were crappy cards with almost no chance of a flush and little chance of a straight. There also wasn’t any paint so I didn’t have to worry about pocket JJ QQ or KK making trips.

The middle guy lead off with a check to me. I split the ladies pot to one side and bet about a thousand. His reaction was one of disgust. “What are you doing, you should be checking”, he then went on to argue that it was more important to keep everyone in (everyone being him) and increase our odds of knocking the lady out then it was for one of us to try and pick up the pot for our own personal gain.

I.e.
X amount of chips (in this case the pot) will increase your chance of winning the tournament by Y%
1 less player in the tournament will increase your chance of winning the tournament by Z%

He believed in this situation Z was greater than Y.

My issue was that I didn’t think Z was that high, she wasn’t a very good player and there were to many players left to make it significant.
Second and this was a biggy, following his check to the end logic my aces were in great danger of being out drawn and what happens when he hits his straight or flush on the river? That guy would of bet, I just know it.

In the end he folded. She turned over QQ and I turned over my AA. The bend and river helped no one and I picked up the pot (I found out later that the other guy had AK).

This “discussion” gained the interest of a lot of other plays watching and the opinion was actually split about 50-50. So what do you think, did I play it right. TBH I probably should of re-raised his all in call pre-flop, but aside from that.

[monkeymagic]

Well, that's certainly an interesting tale... I think I'd have probably done the same as you in the situation, although as a relative beginner I'm not sure if that is the right move...

Here is my reasoning anyway:

Being that the lady was short-stacked and you had pocket Aces, and the Board helping nobody, then the only reason for the guy opposite you to ask what the hell you were doing is because he didn't want to lose his chips - ones that he thought he could win if getting to the showdown, as the Short-stacked lady might have gone all-in with high unsuited unmatched pocket cards -e.g. Q J or similar...

Besides, I think the odds of his hand beating the woman to your left instead of your hand beating her would be neglible. i.e. Either your pair of Aces would beat her, both of you would beat her, or neither of you would beat her... If he was more confident with his own hand, he'd have called your raise!

So, in my view, I think you did the right thing... Mind you, if your hand did get beaten by the woman to your left, and the guy opposite you might have beaten her but decided to fold due to the high-stakes, then it might have been another story

[Extier]

I think the guy was on crack. You played the hand correctly following the flop.

However, after the lady went all-in and the other fella called... I would have come over the top with my entire stack and isolate the lady on a wing and a prayer.

[jedi]

you should have responded in one way ... the way you did. you could have told him that if taking out the weaker player was good for the table, then certainly taking out 2 would be that much better (if you had him in an all in situation).

[2bad4u]

Basic tournament stretegy:

When getting to a crucial stage of a tournament (e.g. nearly final table or a couple of players to go till you guarantee a cash payout) if someone goes all in the hand is usaully checked through to the end by all the other players so there is more chance of busting out the short stack.

Having said that, it IS correct to bet if a player feels that they have a strong hand that should at least take care of the all in player. It would be a bad play for someone to bet and force out a player who would have beaten the all in player, especially when the all in player wins the pot!

In the end, I think FreeZey made the correct play here. His analysis at the time was correct as he believed his hand was strong enough to sweep the pot (which it was but that's beside the point!). If on the other hand FreeZey had the AK, it MAY NOT have been correct to bet as even a pair of 2s would have beaten him at this point.

HTH

[7-2offsuit]

Yes, it's generally accepted that when you're CLOSE TO, or actually IN the money, the remaining active players check it down when a small stack is AI because together you have a better chance of taking him/her out and increasing your chance of winning/moneying, but from what you're saying I'm guessing you're not even close to that. 50 people entered and 25 were left, so I'm guessing the tourney is paying top 5-10 spots or something? I agree with you, too many players left for this to be a big issue - take his X and his Z and plant them firmly up his ass.

Additionally, it's not like you're trying to bluff him off the hand or anything - you're just value-betting your Aces (bluffing into an empty sidepot when your opponent might have the hand that knocks out the shortie is another thing altogether!) - you likely have the best hand at that point and you're betting it, nothing wrong with that IMO.

On a side note, the way you played your Aces here would suggest that you wanted some action from the MP player (otherwise as Extier suggests you AI to isolate pre-flop). That being the case, a better play might have been to put in a raise from the Button when action came round to you pre-flop. If you're going to risk multi-way action on your Aces, you should make the Mid Position player pay to see the flop - clearly MP has a hand so give him the opportunity of making a mistake by throwing a bet in there. You don't say how many players limp-folded but with just you, the SB, BB and MP I'm guessing you have at least 2600 in the pot by the time action comes back round to you. I'm putting in a raise here of somewhere between 1300-2000 and if Mr Check It Down wants to create a side pot with you before seeing a flop, go ahead and let him. At least that way when he starts whining at you when you lead out on the flop you can just point at the side pot and tell him to put up or shut up.

[Top Pair Ace Kicker]

Got to laugh at someone saying you shouldnt be playing a hand for your own personal gain. lol. that is exactly what I DO play every hand for!