My Fear of Aces

[Oinkment]

Jeesus H christ i just got bluffed badly and knocked out of the £5 Gutshot Tourney.

This is how it went - Blinds are 100/200 (rebuys are over) - I have about 2700 in chips. Well theres 6 callers and I have KdJc in the small blind so I limp in for 100 more

Flop is 2c, 9d, Js

I bet 300 and everyone folds bar one player so I think he may have a Jack too.

Turn is Kh which gives me two pair so I bet 500 (leaving me about 16/1700 left in chips) - This guy calls so I put him on something like AJ and I feel quite good.

Turn comes its a Ace of Hearts

- I bet 500 and I get Raised all in - I really think he has AJ now so I fold but show him my two pair - He shows me 10 8 off suite.

I know I should of called all in on hindsight - but was my play that bad???

[7-2offsuit]

Jeesus H christ i just got bluffed badly and knocked out of the £5 Gutshot Tourney.

This is how it went - Blinds are 100/200 (rebuys are over) - I have about 2700 in chips. Well theres 6 callers and I have KdJc in the small blind so I limp in for 50 more

Flop is 2c, 9d, Js

I bet 300 and everyone folds bar one player so I think he may have a Jack too.

Turn is Kh which gives me two pair so I bet 500 (leaving me about 16/1700 left in chips) - This guy calls so I put him on something like AJ and I feel quite good.

Turn comes its a Ace of Hearts

- I bet 500 and I get Raised all in - I really think he has AJ now so I fold but show him my two pair - He shows me 10 8 off suite.

I know I should of called all in on hindsight - but was my play that bad???

Hmm. Seems like a pretty loose table

I think

a) Questionable playing KJo at all
b) If you do choose to play it from the SB, don't limp (especially with 6 other limpers)
c) When you have the lead and are betting for value (which I assume is what you're doing) go for somewhere in the region of half the pot to a pot-sized bet.

a) You're about to receive the button and you still have 13XBB. You've already said that put your opponent on A-J on the Turn so I'm presuming this WAS the sort of table where people were apt to limp in with biggish hands. With six limpers in this hand is it really worth getting involved with KJo (on the offchance that one of these six limpers has decided to trap with a big hand)? KJo might look like a pretty hand but what kind of board are you gonna be happy seeing? Anyway, that's just me, Mr Supertight.

b) If I was in early position with this hand I'm throwing it away, but with six limpers and in the SB I'm not limping (by the way if you're in the SB and blinds are at 100/200 how are you limping in for just 50 more?) - if I'm in this hand at all I'm probably raising with KJ (suited or no) to win the blinds. You don't mention the stacks of the opposition or the types of players they are but I'm guessing a 3 x BB raise is either going to take it down or someone's going to play back at you. Even if this is the case you're likely to lose the dross and at least know you're up against someone with a hand, not to mention being out of position.

c) By the size of your bets (300 into a pot of 1400 on the flop, 500 into a pot of 2100 on the Turn, and another 500 into a pot of 3100 on the River - either continuation bets or very weak value-bets) your opponent detects weakness and might be right to move in on you on the River, but I'd say that the board you saw was a pretty good one for your openers. Hard to lay this down IMO. What would the board have to show for you to call this with your KJo? Had you made a good value bet on the Turn with your Top Two Pair you're either taking it down there or making it clear to your opponent that you're committed to this hand for the rest of your chips. No way he moves in on you on the River then unless he really has the goods. You have 1700 behind you by the time the Turn hits - personally I'm moving in here...

[Oinkment]

Ting is -

At the Gutshot - you gotta play a bit loose, I been playing my game down there for a while and supertight and aggressive does not serve me well.

It seems that being a bit loose in late position during the rebuy period gets your stack up a bit ready for the knockout perod.

The dudes there will raise with 9/5 suited and KT all the time so you think that a hand like KJ will play a bit better.

On reflection I think I played that hand like a Rock and my Sharky opponent smelt this and decided to put pressure on me - I was completely outplayed "sigh".

Thanks for the tips mind you - I don't think I will be such a sucker next time - next time Im going all in - if i'm wrong so be it...

[Mastafrick]

my best tip for here is just to take notes on ur opponents... that way hopefully by the time ur stuck in a pickle like this, u atleast know if who ur playing is loose or tight or what...

[Top Pair Ace Kicker]

a) Questionable playing KJo at all

Agree with that.
Official line is that it is ranked 35th in starting hands. Not sure I would be playing with 6 other limpers.

b) If you do choose to play it from the SB, don't limp (especially with 6 other limpers)

Dont agree with that. I think if I was going to play at all I would only call. Official line is to raise from late position but beware the re-raise. With 6 callers I would expect a re-raise and what would you do then? Waste of chips IMO. Leads me more and more onto throwing away preflop. But then again I am super-super tight

c) When you have the lead and are betting for value (which I assume is what you're doing) go for somewhere in the region of half the pot to a pot-sized bet.

Agree with that. Once you decided to play I think your original bet was too small. Blinds are 100/200, 1400 in the pot an extra 300 is a bit too small for me. Make the drawers pay to see the cards they want to hit, or make the big guns show their hands.

b) If I was in early position with this hand I'm throwing it away, but with six limpers and in the SB I'm not limping if I'm in this hand at all I'm probably raising with KJ (suited or no) to win the blinds.

You don't mention the stacks of the opposition or the types of players they are but I'm guessing a 3 x BB raise is either going to take it down or someone's going to play back at you. Even if this is the case you're likely to lose the dross and at least know you're up against someone with a hand, not to mention being out of position.

For these reasons, I wouldnt have raised. Out of position against someone with a hand either takes balls of bluffing steel, or you are throwing away early. After the flop if you check he bets, what do you do? or you bet he calls, you still dont know where you are, or you bet and he raises, again you got to think you are behind here.

c) By the size of your bets (300 into a pot of 1400 on the flop, 500 into a pot of 2100 on the Turn, and another 500 into a pot of 3100 on the River - either continuation bets or very weak value-bets) your opponent detects weakness and might be right to move in on you on the River, but I'd say that the board you saw was a pretty good one for your openers. Hard to lay this down IMO. What would the board have to show for you to call this with your KJo? Had you made a good value bet on the Turn with your Top Two Pair you're either taking it down there or making it clear to your opponent that you're committed to this hand for the rest of your chips. No way he moves in on you on the River then unless he really has the goods. You have 1700 behind you by the time the Turn hits - personally I'm moving in here...

Totally agree. I have a large bet on the flop, and the turn makes my hand better, I think I would be all in. Then again this is the exact hand that the opponent turns over QT suited and his straight makes your two pair look slightly underwhelming
Brings me back to the starting thinking of folding. These hands will bring you trouble.