Can You Fold Aces Preflop?

[Liam_AA]

Ok well this question popped up in a conversation recently, my initial thoughts were "are you stupid?" but the more I think about it the more it could become a reality, I'm talking tournament poker by the way.

Put yourself in this situation. 8 players at the table, first hour into the game no one is out yet 100 runners.

Your on BB (100 out of your 10k stack) you look down at aces.

Player 1: First to act raises to 3k
Player 2: All in
Player 3: Call
Player 4: Fold
Player 5: Call
Player 6: Fold
Player 7: Fold
Player 8: Now you have aces.... so call right?
Player 1: Call 8k More

So now we have 5 all ins, show there cards and an explanation

Player 1: Ace King Spades - Over bet but this does happen
Player 2: Pocket Jacks - Thought he would end it there with the jacks
Player 3: Pocket Queens - Loose player here thinking he queens are good saw a pair got excited
Player 5: Pocket Kings - Kings is loving this puts people on maybe one ace but thinks his kings are good
Player 8: Pocket Aces

Sitting pretty? Not as well as you might think... while you are obviously ahead pre-flop and there are some rash decisions from the Jacks/Ace Kings (And maybe the queens) this is an extreme but possible situation. If you pump these odds into a calculator you can see below it is an all out race from Aces point of view, with just a 52% chance to take down the pot. (47% of the time you will loose this with a 1% split) Odds for each hand below.

Player 1: Ace King Spades 4%
Player 2: Pocket Jacks 15%
Player 3: Pocket Queens 17%
Player 5: Pocket Kings 10%
Player 8: Pocket Aces 52%

With all players roughly looking at a 1% (+/- 0.5%) split pot

So a win would happen most of the time but are you prepared to put your tournament on the line at this point for what is in essence a 50/50? Ok so you didn't know exactly what was out there but you predicted your aces were virtually dead and that kings and queens were out there. (Maybe another set of aces)

There are 2 very common opinions in this situation,

1) I hear a few of you shout odds mean nothing... well as I politely told a player at yesterdays LPL Game to ignore odds is to ignore poker.
2) I hear the following a lot with AK - "I will always call an all in with Ace King" again its another story but you can fold, and sometimes the winner folds the best hand.

Just to clarify I'm not saying I would fold I'm just pointing out the fact that to fold wouldn't be as much of a wild and crazy decision as one might think.

Interested in what your opinions are on the above, if it has made some of you think about it a little more. Its a extreme situation but certainly possible.

!

[Raiser]

Originally Posted by Liam_AA

Player 1: Ace King Spades 4%
Player 2: Pocket Jacks 15%
Player 3: Pocket Queens 17%
Player 5: Pocket Kings 10%
Player 8: Pocket Aces 52%

OK think about this is a different way. If this hand was played with the hole cards facing up then the right thing to do would be to call, right?

I d quite happily take this without even having to worry about it.

The only time i would CONSIDER folding would be if this was on the bubble of a money buyin tournie or in a satellite around the bubble.

[Liam_AA]

Not nessercerlily as I said above evan if you see the cards your still in a 50/50 position to win/loose.

Its an interesting situation.

[tfeilding]

Whilst the odds are not stacked in your favour, I think that the potential reward makes up for the odds. You might just quadruple up which isnt bad for a 50% risk.

[Raiser]

Originally Posted by Liam_AA

Its an interesting situation.

No, its not even a situation! Its an instacall.

[DannyC]

Now then, this brings up my debate on Aces pre-flop with the discussion we had a couple of years back?!? but I wont get into that, for dice mans sake...

[Liam_AA]

A quick google search...

Why risk getting eliminated when you're only a four-and-a-half to one favorite or less" Why not simply fold and wait for someone else to go broke" It is a very rare case indeed, that it would actually be correct to fold pocket aces before the flop. It just goes to show you, never say never in poker!

And thats only 2 people in the pot. With 5... its a different story.

[ian_distort]

Yep, I'd be all-in all day long (except at bubble time in a satellite; I'd have to see the lay of the land before making my decision), and I'd imagine that even Brawlsey and The Chickenman would have trouble getting away from the hand. The imaginary player with AK is a tool, however.

Ultimately, you know your opponents have to hit, and you don't.

[Raiser]

Originally Posted by Liam_AA

A quick google search...

You took the words right out of my mouth....

A Perfect Example of When You Must Fold AA Preflop

Folding AA Preflop

Poker Strategy: Should you ever fold AA preflop?

Fold Pocket Aces Pre-flop? « Stone Cold Blog

The 2+2 Forums: AA!

Fold AA on preflop? Posted By : San sanuch | gambling online offers | gambling list online | gambling games online | and online gambling

Absolute Poker Forum > folding aa

I also done a google search and from the entire internet i managed to find this quote...

Stop Chatting shit!

[Raiser]

Originally Posted by Liam_AA

A quick google search...



And thats only 2 people in the pot. With 5... its a different story.

Send the link or post the whole artice, cause iam pretty sure you have edited this.

...and, you must be pretty fuckin stupid if you dont want to play a hand being a 9/2 fav!!!!!!!!!!!