Can You Fold Aces Preflop?

[Liam_AA]

Thanks for the post Ian, as for raiser, thats the kind of reply I expected so well done to you for being the first to dismiss this with such a well thought out argument :-/

I think there is a general concensis that you can fold them preflop and thats all I was after seeing what people views were. I'm surprised at the result more people partially agreeing than I thought.

Edit Second post.... -

Stupid? No... As stated in the original post you are not 9-2 you are 2-1. - I respect you opinion but you seem to be taking this way away from what the original point was.

[Raiser]

Originally Posted by Liam_AA

Thanks for the post Ian, as for raiser, thats the kind of reply I expected so well done to you for being the first to dismiss this with such a well thought out argument :-/

I think there is a general concensis that you can fold them preflop and thats all I was after seeing what people views were. I'm suprised at the result more people partially agreeing than I thought.

Yes you CAN fold them preflop but ONLY in a sat or in a specific situation where there is a very big jump in money and there are people all in before you.

Besides those specific situations, you will be stupid to do it.

As for my well thought out argumnet it wasnt thought out - cause its so bloody obvious!!

As for you then posting some random quote from google saying its ok to fold knowing you are a 9/2 fav - WTF?!?!?!?

Are you on crack?

[Liam_AA]

The quote was taken from phil helmuths site. He was referring to a satellite situation (full quote below). I believe that this has been taken a little off track, I have merely put forward an idea to see what people opinions are, obviously you cannot accept that. Its shame because I believe its an interesting debate on when and if people have done it.

While playing recently in ESPN's World Championship of Poker, the following hand came up. With the blinds at $2,000-$4,000, and the antes at $500 a man, Michael picked up A-A in the first position and folded it. I stand by Michael's play and claim that it was the right move, 100%!

Why do I support the lay down" How can it be correct to fold pocket aces before the flop" Facts: Michael was at the table before the final card was dealt: Michael did have the chip lead at the table that day: there were 55 players left, and 45 of them were going to get paid. So then, what the heck is going on here'

Michael Madsen is a famous actor who has been in 64 movies. You might know him from"Reservoir Dogs,"a recent James Bond movie (as Felix), or his starring role in"Kill Bill: Volume Two." Or perhaps you'll know him as the lead character (Don Everest, nicknamed"The Matador') in the new ESPN series"Tilt." By the way,"ESPN's World Championship of Poker"exists only in the show"Tilt.'

It went down like this: I was on the set of"Tilt,"sitting in the 7-seat, with The Matador in the 4-seat, when the director Jeremiah Chechik said,"Michael, we will deal you a hand, then you fold it, and walk over and talk to another character on the rail." Michael then looked at the hand, but it took him almost a full minute to fold it. I noticed that he was a bit slow to fold his hand, but thought nothing of it.

When the scene was over and we were all sitting down queuing up for the next take, Michael looks over at the dealer and says,"What the Hell man, why did you have to deal me pocket aces last hand'" I said,"I noticed that it took a long time for you to fold." Michael said,"No kidding man, it was pocket aces." At which point a good laugh was had by all.

I then said,"That's the only time I've ever heard of, where it was correct to throw away pocket aces before the flop!" Look for my scene in episode number eight, where I conduct myself with my usual table decorum'

By the way, poker star Annie Duke tells me that she has folded pocket aces before the flop on at least one occasion. Of course, there are cases where this would be the correct play. For example, in a super satellite, when you have say, 30% of the chips, eight players win seats, there are 9 players remaining, and a player with more chips than you moves all-in; in this case it would be correct to fold pocket aces.

Why risk getting eliminated when you're only a four-and-a-half to one favorite or less" Why not simply fold and wait for someone else to go broke" After all, eight players all get paid the same in a super satellite. It is a very rare case indeed, that it would actually be correct to fold pocket aces before the flop. It just goes to show you, never say never in poker!

[Johnny5]

I dont think you can lay this down. You know you have the best hand and theres 40k in the pot before you have made your desicion (using your example).
But like it has been said, unless its bubble time, then thats the only time id think about mucking them.

[Raiser]

Originally Posted by Liam_AA

The quote was taken from phil helmuths site. He was referring to a satellite situation (full quote below). I believe that this has been taken a little off track, I have merely put forward an idea to see what people opinions are, obviously you cannot accept that. Its shame because I believe its an interesting debate on when and if people have done it.

Ok before i go into a massive rant, and requote this entire thread bit by bit. I suggest you go back and reread the entire thread first. Then come back to me with your tail between your legs as you will relise my first post sums up the quote from hellmuth.

[Liam_AA]

Thanks for the reply Johnny. I know it would be impossible to lay down!! You would be very very extaticly happy that the people were going all in inf ront of you!

[Johnny5]

Originally Posted by Raiser

Send the link or post the whole artice, cause iam pretty sure you have edited this.

...and, you must be pretty fuckin stupid if you dont want to play a hand being a 9/2 fav!!!!!!!!!!!

World Series of Poker Star - Phil Hellmuth

[Liam_AA]

I haven't disagreed with you yet raiser, you just have it in your head I have, I am merely asking the question. I have simply stated that the situation is an interesting one when thought out.

[Raiser]

Originally Posted by Liam_AA

I haven't disagreed with you yet raiser, you just have it in your head I have, I am merely asking the question. I have simply stated that the situation is an interesting one when thought out.

Your first post is reffering to a 100 seat MTT and noone is out yet...Hellmuths quote is reffering to the satellite situation i mentioned in my first post.

They are COMPLETLY differernt situations and you cant even compare them.

Its like me starting a thread about Fosters and then throwing in a quote from guiness saying "the best things comes to those who wait" and then actually talking about them in the same context. It doesnt make sense!

[Liam_AA]

I have brought up a situation where Aces are not strong and asked the question can you fold aces preflop, I have only asked a question I havent said you should do this or do that. The first post gives a situational example of which there will be many.

I dont understand why you are so irate about it.