Showing 1 card during a hand...

TheChickenman · 2nd October 2007, 03:44 PM

If there are 2 players in a hand, is one allowed to reveal one (or both!) of their hole cards to their opponent before the hand is over?

My understanding is that the Live League doesn't allow this, and that this is a fairly standard ruling for tournaments.

Can this be relaxed in the Live League? I do love to give my opponents as much information as possible so that they can take my chips easier.

tfeilding · 2nd October 2007, 03:45 PM

I dont think this should be relaxed cos otherwise people will start asking for all kinds of rules to be changed.

Anyhow, we all know you almost always have an Ace!

Liam_AA · 2nd October 2007, 03:57 PM

I've seen it before where somone has accidently turned there cards over and continued to play the hand. Bit of a grey area, but to be honest if somone started turing cards over i'd be a little bit annoyed. While in general it will give the opposition information about your hand its just daft.

Liam

alexross1977 · 2nd October 2007, 04:14 PM

there is apparently a mathematical reason not to allow the showing of 1 of your holecards.. lee jones [of stars] was up for a 15k bet in chatbox in yesterdays wcoop main event to this effect.. not sure what the reasoning is though.

TheChickenman · 3rd October 2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfeilding

I dont think this should be relaxed cos otherwise people will start asking for all kinds of rules to be changed.

You make a fair point.

I may resort to Jamie Gold style tactics... I have a MonSterR!1!!!

On the other hand, maybe not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfeilding

Anyhow, we all know you almost always have an Ace!

Ha. It's funny cos it's true.

TheChickenman · 12th October 2007, 02:44 PM

OK... Well I've been doing some reading around the subject. Seems Daniel Negraea... Negraen... Nagranue... Daniel Negreanu is pushing for this to be allowed, but there are some sound arguments against it.

What's persuaded me otherwise is-
1) Makes it easy for players to collude.
2) In tournaments everyone has a stake in the prize, it's not just your money at risk in the hand as it is in ring games.

The 2+2 forums have a huge thread discussing the subject, so opinions obviously differ widely.

RevStu · 12th October 2007, 05:23 PM

There's nothing wrong with it, and only crybaby losers complain about it.

If you're in the hand, you're getting free information. If you're not in the hand it's none of your business, so STFU.

DonkBox · 12th October 2007, 05:32 PM

Showing of one card should be allowed but only in a heads up pot, on the river when player a is all-in and player b is determining if they want to call or not. In this situation either player a or b could turn a card over to get a reaction.

The best example I know of this is by Phil Laak, and he calls it the shower shuffle - because he thought of the idea in the shower.

Essentially in a cash game (not tournament) if you've made the nut flush and have made a bet that an opponent in considering calling, then it's clever to turn over the ace of the suit as your opponent thinks that the reason you're showing them the ace is that you've missed your draw - i mean why indicate to him that you have the nuts??

Aidan77 · 22nd October 2007, 01:50 PM

ive never seen it done in tournaments... but in cash games anything goes!!!!! Anything to make the game crazier...

camfay · 6th July 2008, 07:20 AM

I frequently tell people what I've got on the river (after they've acted) to see their reaction. Certainly has the ability to catch them off guard, and has made a number of difficult decisions a lot easier.

2nd October 2007, 03:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
TheChickenman Rank: Player Last Online: Today 06:50 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bristol Posts: 106	Showing 1 card during a hand... If there are 2 players in a hand, is one allowed to reveal one (or both!) of their hole cards to their opponent before the hand is over? My understanding is that the Live League doesn't allow this, and that this is a fairly standard ruling for tournaments. Can this be relaxed in the Live League? I do love to give my opponents as much information as possible so that they can take my chips easier. __________________ ~Chickenman bok bok, bok bok bok aka The People's Champion Chickenman, Chickenman, does whatever a chicken can, Makes a bet, wins a pot, You never know, what he's got, Look out! Here comes the Chickenman!! Except that it's AJ or better...
vChips: 4,444

2nd October 2007, 03:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
tfeilding Rank: Untouchable Last Online: Today 05:26 PM Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 724	I dont think this should be relaxed cos otherwise people will start asking for all kinds of rules to be changed. Anyhow, we all know you almost always have an Ace! __________________
vChips: 21,690

2nd October 2007, 03:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
Liam_AA Rank: Player Last Online: 29th August 2008 10:33 AM Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 142	I've seen it before where somone has accidently turned there cards over and continued to play the hand. Bit of a grey area, but to be honest if somone started turing cards over i'd be a little bit annoyed. While in general it will give the opposition information about your hand its just daft. Liam __________________
vChips: 7,072

2nd October 2007, 04:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
alexross1977 Banned Last Online: 29th August 2008 03:56 AM Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: OWNING myself on the forums. OOPs. Posts: 2,256	there is apparently a mathematical reason not to allow the showing of 1 of your holecards.. lee jones [of stars] was up for a 15k bet in chatbox in yesterdays wcoop main event to this effect.. not sure what the reasoning is though. __________________
vChips: 45,231

12th October 2007, 02:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
TheChickenman Rank: Player Last Online: Today 06:50 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bristol Posts: 106	OK... Well I've been doing some reading around the subject. Seems Daniel Negraea... Negraen... Nagranue... Daniel Negreanu is pushing for this to be allowed, but there are some sound arguments against it. What's persuaded me otherwise is- 1) Makes it easy for players to collude. 2) In tournaments everyone has a stake in the prize, it's not just your money at risk in the hand as it is in ring games. The 2+2 forums have a huge thread discussing the subject, so opinions obviously differ widely. __________________ ~Chickenman bok bok, bok bok bok aka The People's Champion Chickenman, Chickenman, does whatever a chicken can, Makes a bet, wins a pot, You never know, what he's got, Look out! Here comes the Chickenman!! Except that it's AJ or better...
vChips: 4,444

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12th October 2007, 05:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
RevStu Lovely Ray Of Sunshine Last Online: Today 06:38 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 625	There's nothing wrong with it, and only crybaby losers complain about it. If you're in the hand, you're getting free information. If you're not in the hand it's none of your business, so STFU. __________________
vChips: 21,664

12th October 2007, 05:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
DonkBox Boo Rar Last Online: Yesterday 12:12 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: bath Posts: 1,051	Showing of one card should be allowed but only in a heads up pot, on the river when player a is all-in and player b is determining if they want to call or not. In this situation either player a or b could turn a card over to get a reaction. The best example I know of this is by Phil Laak, and he calls it the shower shuffle - because he thought of the idea in the shower. Essentially in a cash game (not tournament) if you've made the nut flush and have made a bet that an opponent in considering calling, then it's clever to turn over the ace of the suit as your opponent thinks that the reason you're showing them the ace is that you've missed your draw - i mean why indicate to him that you have the nuts?? __________________ The fact that live cash players are retarded is awesome!! Just remember that at the most basic level, your edge will be derived from the fact that bad live players call too often with the worst hand and fail to bet for value often enough with the best hand.
vChips: 9,672

22nd October 2007, 01:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
Aidan77 Rank: Player Last Online: 28th August 2008 01:33 PM Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 75	ive never seen it done in tournaments... but in cash games anything goes!!!!! Anything to make the game crazier... __________________
vChips: 2,106

6th July 2008, 07:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
camfay Rank: Beginner Last Online: 15th July 2008 09:23 PM Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK Posts: 14	I frequently tell people what I've got on the river (after they've acted) to see their reaction. Certainly has the ability to catch them off guard, and has made a number of difficult decisions a lot easier. __________________
vChips: 569

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