Calling for advice

[mambo me]

We had an issue tonight, that I don't know how to deal with, I'd appreciate some advice or assistance.

2 people playing a hand. Flop was AQJ, and it turns out that both players had flopped a straight. Player G raises to 3k. Player L says time out and calls to their friend on another table. Near riot ensues, with player g who raised, protesting - loudly and correctly - that you can't call for advice.
Despite the protests, the friend looks at the cards and advises that player L calls.

On this occasion, player G was acting as tournament director and so had no third party to call on for arbitration.

The end result was that player G actually won with a flush, but how do you deal with blatant breaking of rules?
None of the players were new or inexperienced, they have all been to or qualified for finals days in the past.

What should have happened here?

[LPL_Mike]

Originally Posted by mambo me

We had an issue tonight, that I don't know how to deal with, I'd appreciate some advice or assistance.

2 people playing a hand. Flop was AQJ, and it turns out that both players had flopped a straight. Player G raises to 3k. Player L says time out and calls to their friend on another table. Near riot ensues, with player g who raised, protesting - loudly and correctly - that you can't call for advice.
Despite the protests, the friend looks at the cards and advises that player L calls.

On this occasion, player G was acting as tournament director and so had no third party to call on for arbitration.

The end result was that player G actually won with a flush, but how do you deal with blatant breaking of rules?
None of the players were new or inexperienced, they have all been to or qualified for finals days in the past.

What should have happened here?

Correct me if i am wrong here.... but the rule is very simple.

You cannot discuss or obtain advice about your hand if its live with anyone, and in my opinion if you you break this rule your hand is classed as dead.

[RayWSM]

The hand is DEAD, NO ADVICE from a third party about a live hand

[tfeilding]

I agree - hand is dead.

The person had flopped the straight, so they weren't even asking for serious advise, they were breaking the rules to try and gain an advantage by disguising their hand.

I wonder if the individidual had played at the inter-pub and thought timeouts were acceptable?

[mambo me]

They were at the inter pub cup, but they both knew that there were no time-outs in an ordinary game.

It was just straight cheating.

Fortunately player L got knocked off the table with that hand, so I guess justice was done.

I just needed to know how to deal with it in the future, if it ever comes up again.

Thank you for the replies guys, it's been helpful

[Alex_B]

Agree with everything sais previously. The hand should have instantly been declared dead, end of story... One player to one hand. This was blatant cheating and it was justice that the player went out of the game with the hand in question.

I find it quite unbeliveable that someone would think that they could call a time out in the middle of a hand and go and bring a friend over to look at their cards and give them advice.

Lol, I've heard it all now...... like I say, blantant cheating, and it should have resulted in a warning being given to that player - if it happens again at future games, theyshould (in my view) be disqualified from that nights game.

[-DarkAngel-]

like I say, blantant cheating, and it should have resulted in a warning being given to that player - if it happens again at future games, theyshould (in my view) be disqualified from that nights game. [/quote]

I totally agree with this i think this should be treated seriously in future to stop anyone doing this or any other way of cheating. (which ive seen happen quite often, im sad to admit to. Its a friendly poker game no need to cheat not like were gonna win millions.

[-DarkAngel-]

Originally Posted by Alex_B

like I say, blantant cheating, and it should have resulted in a warning being given to that player - if it happens again at future games, theyshould (in my view) be disqualified from that nights game.

I totally agree with this and do feel strongly that any form of cheating should be made aware of maybe possibly do temporary bans or summin especially if there frequent cheats... everyone knows they cant ask for advice its their hand no one elses...

things like this can put you off joining the live poker league (imagine if a newbie was their, would they really wanna come back?)

[-DarkAngel-]

sorry didnt think it worked first time

[tfeilding]

Currently I am clamping down on people pulling their cards out of the muck. It happened far too often and it would often impact on those currently in the hand. Also, some people would turn the mucked cards over after the hand to find theirs. I think now people know in the two venues I run that they cant do it but it does sometimes happen - like last week a guy pulled out his mucked cards and showed them to a person still in the hand and then when told off tried to blame the other person for looking at his cards.

It also annoys me when people say that its only a fun game of cards and little things like this shouldnt be an issue - but if someone travels half way across town and spends money at the bar then they deserve a fair game.