Calling for advice

[tfeilding]

Originally Posted by TheChickenman

I'm Bristol league... I play all over.

Showing rabbits without my permission if I'm involved in the hand*.
Showing cards after a hand to some players, but not to all.
String betting (but this is very rare).
People disappearing from the table and not making it clear wether they were happy for us to muck their hands or not and then the table sat there waiting for them to return. Surely this is an automatic muck situation?
And as mentioned here... Advising others on how to play. It's ok to help them with the rules if they're new and a few basic strategies, but this was a final table incident.

oh and as a non poker related incident: People knocking their drinks over. Accidents happen but... 3 times on one table in one night is a bit much and in one evening it happened on the first hand


* In one particularly bad case I was dealer, my opponent folded after I bet the flop, he asked to see the turn and river, I said no and placed the deck on the muck ready for the next dealer. He then proceeded to take the apparant top deck cards from the muck.

However, I'll admit that I ain't perfect... When I first joined I was running my mouth at players when I wasn't involved in a hand, but I've since realised that's not on. And there was the "the chicken apolagises" incident, but I've apolagised personally for that now too.

It's not the practices themselves, more so people's reactions when I dispute the situation that surprised me.

Please don't misunderstand me though, I've had a great time this month and will definately be playing more this month.

This is John, right?

I don't view rabbit-chasing as a wrongful thing and even ask sometimes to see it - it does not impact on the game as the action is over - although I accept that it shouldn't be done but I see it as generally harmless.

It is common for people to show one person their hand - again, I think rule clarification is what's needed - if someone explains the show-one-show-all rule then Ive always found people oblige and reveal their hand.

String betting gets clamped down on by everyone which is good to see - I think that along with the show-one/show-all rule, these are the ones which regular players constantly enforce.

I'm ruthless about people leaving the table - if they aren't there or approaching the table then their hand gets mucked.

Back when I started in the league I was terrible at talking about hands when I wasn't involved. Now I'm a good boy about this. One thing I can sometimes do now though is if I am in a hand I will talk through the hand cos I may want to influence the chips moving from, say, a good player to a bad player. I'll be quite subtle about this but will sometimes try and plant some seeds. So I might say something like 'I'm respecting your raise, though I'm sure you are weak' even if there is action behind me. I guess I should probably stop doing this.

If you have any issues about anything in future then just talk to the organiser and they should in theory sort things out.

[TheChickenman]

Maybe I am John... Who else is THE CHICKENMAN??

On the subject of rabbits... If I represent a hand and then my opponent folds and sees the rabbits which show the cards that I was representing, it destroys my bluff. It gives the opponent information which they would normally have to pay to see. If I'm not involved then fine go ahead. It's free information for me.

But y'know... it's just a friendly game afterall.

[-DarkAngel-]

Originally Posted by TheChickenman

On the subject of rabbits... If I represent a hand and then my opponent folds and sees the rabbits which show the cards that I was representing, it destroys my bluff. It gives the opponent information which they would normally have to pay to see. If I'm not involved then fine go ahead. It's free information for me.

But y'know... it's just a friendly game afterall.

Just because they ask for the rabbit i cant see how this affects what your representing unless youve shown them your cards, (which i cant see many people doing) so why fret other this as far as im concerned anyone can see the rabbit and they dont need the whole tables permission as it affects no-one but themselves (i believe)

[Alex_B]

If you've represented a specific card after the flop and made a bet to make out you have that specific card or cards and the other person then folds, if you do a rabbit and the card or cards that you were making out you held in your hand come out in the rabbit then the person knows that you didn't hold those cards and were in fact bluffing to win the pot. That in itself is giving information away that the person did not pay to see. I personally would not permit a rabbit after a hand that I had won and if someone went ahead and did it anyway I would call for the TD.

My understanding of the rules is that to do a rabbit, the only person you need to get permission from is the person who won the hand.... again, this is because by turning the remaining cards over, the cards themselves may give away valuable information about the winners hand and what they might or might not have held.

[TheChickenman]

Originally Posted by -DarkAngel-

Just because they ask for the rabbit i cant see how this affects what your representing

Did you read my post? Anyway... Here's an example:

There's a king on the board.

I bet to represent a pair of kings.

They fold, but the rabbits come KK.

It's a pretty easy conclusion that I was bluffing. However...

Normally they would have to pay money to the pot to get this information, but they didn't.

And last night was another bad night... People grabbing cards from the muck, cards only getting shown to a single person, deals where cards were thrown across the table at an angle to make them visible to other people. Again, when I question the practices I get scorned at. I'm glad I drove half way across town for that. Funny, because normally that venue is pretty good.

[Alex_B]

What is this venue? It sounds like the TD needs a right kick up the arse..... the person in charge needs to make an announcement before the game that there will be:
No grabbing cards out of the muck pile
A show one show all rule in force
No rabbits - without the permission of the person who won the hand

If the TD is not worried that all these things are happening or is in incapable of keeping control of the game then they should not be in charge of the game as it is ruining it for the people who are there to play proper (and fair) poker.

[LPL_Mike]

I Have sent you a PM

Originally Posted by TheChickenman

Did you read my post? Anyway... Here's an example:

There's a king on the board.

I bet to represent a pair of kings.

They fold, but the rabbits come KK.

It's a pretty easy conclusion that I was bluffing. However...

Normally they would have to pay money to the pot to get this information, but they didn't.

And last night was another bad night... People grabbing cards from the muck, cards only getting shown to a single person, deals where cards were thrown across the table at an angle to make them visible to other people. Again, when I question the practices I get scorned at. I'm glad I drove half way across town for that. Funny, because normally that venue is pretty good.

[LPL_Mike]

Chickenman
I can understand your frustation but at the same time you have to understand that these problems will occur because the tables are self dealt.

We also have a mix of new players who don't fully understand the equitte of the table, and sometimes will need this explaining

If your are having a problem at the table then you need to call the TD over and state the problem, as it seems you mention it yourself but don't take it any further?

Also at the start of the game when you sit at a table explain to the players that you don't like rabbits without premission and that no player should put there hand in the muck, ONLY THE DEALER CAN! at least from the start you have everyones agreement.

Example:
you say that cards are dealt where a person may see the face of the card, if this is so then stop the deal and expose the seen card ... i dont see the problem with that

If a person rabbits withoout permission then call the TD over and get the problem sorted there and then, if you don't say anything or just moan at the table nothing would of been achieved and then don't be surprised when it happens again.

Tom in Bristol who runs a couple of venues is putting a stop to these practices by educating the players.

I am also thinking about introducing a 1 warning system and then you will recieve a timeout penalty if you

A. Grab cards from the muck.
B. Rabbit without the premission from the winner of the hand.

I intent to bring this up in our next Finals and introduce a timeout penalty to players that break these to rules.

[TheChickenman]

Thank you for your support.

as it seems you mention it yourself but don't take it any further?

Well, relatively new to the LPL, I wasn't sure how far I could take things or what the penalties were, hence why I bring it up for discussion here.

[-DarkAngel-]

Originally Posted by LPL_Mike

Chickenman
I can understand your frustation but at the same time you have to understand that these problems will occur because the tables are self dealt.

We also have a mix of new players who don't fully understand the equitte of the table, and sometimes will need this explaining

Tom in Bristol who runs a couple of venues is putting a stop to these practices by educating the players.

I am also thinking about introducing a 1 warning system and then you will recieve a timeout penalty if you

A. Grab cards from the muck.
B. Rabbit without the premission from the winner of the hand.

I intent to bring this up in our next Finals and introduce a timeout penalty to players that break these to rules.

I think this is very fair but as you said there is alot of new as well as alot of ppl who dont know all the rules if all the pubs are stricter hopefully ppl may enjoy there game more with out stressing over ppl doing the wrong things i.e grabbing mucked cards etc....