Mike keeps removing threads he dosen't like

[Ed!]

To my knowledge the £1 rake was not the issue, it was the ridiculous format of the SnG. 30x bb starting stack and blinds up every 12minutes. If you think thats a good game then your mistaken I am afraid. And if you do compare that to the average online SnG, then you will find that starting stack would be in the order of 60xbb and blinds would be every 15 minutes, (consider that you play almost twice as many hands online, then that equates to a live game of around 25 minutes). In effect your getting a quarter of the play. Thats called bingo ! So if you dont get a playable hand inside 2 orbits of the table, the blinds are now 100/200 and your stack is around 1175. And you think thats a good game ? Honestly ?

No one from Manchester has criticised the main game in itself, but what you are not taking into account is that we was asked to make a sacrifice. That sacrifice entailed a 2 day stay in a hotel, a 7 hour round trip drive, and a day off work. This was accepted on the basis that the venue was "PERFECT", and that it was better than any alternative. This is a nonsense ! Anyone can arrange a room of that standard in half an hour. And I think people did too. I would guess that in total we have spent more money getting and staying there than the prize pool itself ! And then you say its free. £100 weekend to play poker in nuclear bunker !!

Consider that there were no other facilities nearby, (anything to speak of), and in all the average player from Manchester has sacrificed a fair amount of time and money, for what ? Its nothing of value anyway. Had we recieved a great weekend away, with good facilities and viable things to do once knocked out, (including but not limited to a decent bite to eat - potato and jam donut. PLEASE !), then all would be well.

And no its not free. Please understand that the league is a commercial entity. In that we are the customers, we pay for its very existence. There is no entry fee, correct. This satisfies the legal requirements. Ask your landlord is you stop buying drinks will he still pay £30/£50/£70 per week for it?

As for comments that it is only a minority that is unhappy, then I think your wrong here too. Most of the people I heard commented that overall it was poor. Even players from south west agreed that they would have been unhappy if they had had to stay over for it, and a few left to go home to a casino game, (maybe they have casinos, with no food and bingo games but they just wanted to be nearer to home)


I think your loyality to the league is admirable, but you are defending the indefensible. Look at what was promised, and look at what was delivered. It not even close !

[tinlid]

I started the "So what did you think" thread!

I wanted to say exactly that!
I personally loved the Sunday's poker tourni!
I enjoyed Saturdays Poker, coming 12th both nights. (GUTTED)

Yes it did cost me a lot of money, Yes i did think it was sold to us under slightly false pretences, "The Towers Country Club" / Wobbles Card School. However we would have played in the car park if we had too. After all it was three seats to the WSOP! Which is a great prize in any ones books.

Yeah the food was a gripe, yeah the price of the drinks was a gripe also (double G&T £6.20), I cant say anything about the Rake on the tables as i was still playing in the main event! ha ha

Yes some of us Manc's did get a little high spirited, but we were effectively locked in a venue with no food and a bar!!!! What else was anyone expecting!
At least the Southerners once they had gone out could go home!
If its held in the north next time the leagues meet i bet the shoe will be on the other foot then.

I don't know how you can blame a manc for nicking the chips if you don't know who it was, especially with not a single shred of any evidence. I didn't see any CCTV or see a Police officer taking statements off witnesses. All
hear say and conjecture me thinks!!! Could have been anyone!

Not sure if i have my facts right on this one, but i was told one of the winners is a semi pro / sponsored player. I know its a live free league open to anyone and amateur isn't mentioned in the title but still I'm not sure how i feel about that one!!! If it is true what does everyone else think???

Mike thanks for a really good weekend, sorry you got called a C**t!
Sorry you got taxed by a scally!

It does seem to me though that some people do have genuine gripes, so lets discus not delete.

Then maybe the next one will be even better!

regards

Tinlid AKA Flan.

[Scott]

lol funny read..

Sounds pretty much like you cant please some people eh.

[Alex_B]

Tinlid, don't get me wrong mate, i enjoyed the "high spirited" singing and antics! It all added to the great atmosphere!

And just to put the record straight, and i did mention this to a few guys who appeared to have heard the same thing at the venue, Nick Wright is the fellow you mention and he is not a pro or sponsored player (alhough he'd like to be, eh Nick )

Nick is a bloody good player, a great student of the game, and a good down-to-earth lad. He has had a bit of tournament experience but he still plays in the LPL every week and, to be fair, if he was sponsored or semi-pro I don't think he'd bother with that!

It was on the whole a good day and I think if the next one is held closer to Manchester we'd be happy to travel up and take you boys on again.
It was still a two hour drive for us lot each way mind, and that's from Bath. Even longer from W-S-M and Gloucester.

Dan B

[Manc Jesus]

I am glad we are having a discussion about this, and although i was rather arrogant and offensive in some earlier posts, this was a reaction to the fact that opinions like the ones i am about to express were being censored.
Fair enough some of the posts were not appropriate, and had no real substance, so they were rightly deleted, , but it got me riled... really, i felt like i was not valued in any way (partly because of the venue and partly because of the forum).

How can you say that no-one in manchester or SW was annoyed when all the posts were being deleted? My experience in retail and hospitality has taught me that 80% of people who are disgruntled with a service dont in fact complain; most of them just dont come back...

The figures seem to tell a different tale too- there have been a good few views and comments on this thread.

Wobble didnt really do a great deal towards organising the event as far as i could tell- mike [like max says] has his own equipment [even though, as most of you may not realise, mike does not allow any game other than the league game to occur with his equipment]... all wobble really did for the league game was to oversee the provision of the room, and provide 17 felt table covers, numbers and one professional poker table.
I think what he wanted was to make a profit out of the league players [was he the only one?].

With the STTs as they were, i couldnt buy in to a sit and go, and go to mcdonalds and return in time to have any stack left.. (obviously that is a ridiculous proposition, but are people who are still in the tournament expected to get out of the room and drive and still have a tourney?).

OK, one does pay a ten percent rake on the tournaments on the net, but a) like Ed said:

30x bb starting stack and blinds up every 12minutes.
If you compare that to the average online SnG, then you will find that starting stack would be in the order of 60xbb and blinds would be every 15 minutes,
In effect your getting a quarter of the play. Thats called bingo!
So if you dont get a playable hand inside 2 orbits of the table, the blinds are now 100/200 and your stack is around 1175. And you think thats a good game ? Honestly ?

A similar argument could be had about the MTT on saturday night. [Incidentally when we found out about the blind structure, we DID go out instead]. A tournament where you have only two opportunities to bet aggressively on a hand is essentially reduced to a series of little better than coin flips- you are actually better (according to some players) to go all-in every time you hit a good hand than you are to play poker...

If one of the guys who placed in the tourney is a semi pro, either he is very very good and has a lot of time on his hands, or he is lucky that he made the place- if you can place that high out of 150 people, then you could be making (much) more on the net, and i think he might want to re-evaluate the odds of placing versus the value of his time and any expenses he incurred playing the tournament.

On the other hand, i suppose the southern players didnt pay £100 to play a tournament where the prize pool was approx. £6000 with 125 players (ignoring the cost of playing 3 times a week to qualify).

Dont get me wrong- i am not a profitable player in that sense, and the experience of playing a 125 person tourney was great- i could walk round the tables and check up on my friends, i could see every player that i was playing against (unless they were wearing sunglasses, in which case they were invisible). I had a good time - when my mind was on the cards and the game itself.

If you want to charge £10 a head for a buffet, you can do. If you go to a bar with a kitchen that does more than 100 covers any day of the week, they should be able to provide a more equable solution for a buffet- more in the realm of £500 for 100 people. Alternatively, let somewhere with a cheap menu know in advance and they will stock up and put an extra member of staff in the kitchen and serve a limited menu for around £5 per head (with an agreed minimum spend).

Mike, i am glad you have had a change of heart and had this discussion in the open rather than behind your back- most of the people in the manchester league have never met you before the weekend, and it would be a shame for them to think of you as a 'forum nazi' or whatever name they chose. You run a league, but we know that there are over a hundred people in manchester to whom poker (if not neccesarily YOUR league) matters, and who have contributed to your business. so i am glad you have aknowledged them.

Chris Oliver
Ran two venues for LPL in Manchester

[tinlid]

Sorry a manc did lift the box! But at least he gave it back!!!!
An honest manc now theres a first!! ha ha

[LPL_Mike]

I don't know how you can blame a manc for nicking the chips if you don't know who it was, especially with not a single shred of any evidence. I didn't see any CCTV or see a Police officer taking statements off witnesses. All
hear say and conjecture me thinks!!! Could have been anyone!

Really?

Originally Posted by tinlid

Sorry a manc did lift the box! But at least he gave it back!!!!
An honest manc now theres a first!! ha ha

Nice you think its ok that equipment was stolen, and no he didn't just own up he thought he was caught on a CCTV footage after i had a conversation with Dave...so he wasn't being honest he just thought he was caught...honest manc hmmm not that one!

Funny thing is i dont remember saying ..3 WSOP Seats and £2,000 in the prize fund BTW help yourself to anything at the end!!

[LPL_Mike]

I am glad we are having a discussion about this, and although i was rather arrogant and offensive in some earlier posts, this was a reaction to the fact that opinions like the ones i am about to express were being censored.

Fair enough some of the posts were not appropriate, and had no real substance, so they were rightly deleted, , but it got me riled... really, i felt like i was not valued in any way (partly because of the venue and partly because of the forum).

If you wanted to express your views i won't censor or delete the post, but you already admit to being arrogant and offensive so you can't complain that i deleted the post surely?

The figures seem to tell a different tale too- there have been a good few views and comments on this thread.

3/4 players!.... i believe 53 turned up from Manchester so not this flood of unhappy Manchester players as you tried to suggest.

Wobble didnt really do a great deal towards organising the event as far as i could tell- mike [like max says] has his own equipment [even though, as most of you may not realise, mike does not allow any game other than the league game to occur with his equipment

Wobble was not organizing the event i was...wobble was in charge and supervising the side games with his chips and cards etc, the reason for this was mainly to oversea and organize these games and also to deal with any problems that may of occured, the last thing i needed was to have several players fighting of a contested pot and spoiling the main event...so even though you think he was doing nothing he was actually playing an important part in the running of the main event.
BTW i had no chips to give out for side games as all the chip were in play!

With the STTs as they were, i couldnt buy in to a sit and go, and go to mcdonalds and return in time to have any stack left.. (obviously that is a ridiculous proposition, but are people who are still in the tournament expected to get out of the room and drive and still have a tourney?)

You could of made time to pop down to Mcdonalds and then played in a later sit and go..for christ sake it was 5 minutes down the road..

A similar argument could be had about the MTT on saturday night. [Incidentally when we found out about the blind structure, we DID go out

You had no clue what the blind structure or time schedule was..as this was not discussed!...the only complaint was that the starting stack was 4000 not 5000 and for those who played it was a very enjoyable event, which went on untill 12:30 ..nothing like the bingo poker that once again you are trying to portray!

A tournament where you have only two opportunities to bet aggressively on a hand is essentially reduced to a series of little better than coin flips- you are actually better (according to some players) to go all-in every time you hit a good hand than you are to play poker...

Is that how you play the LPL games in Manchester? one good hand and you push all in?

On the other hand, i suppose the southern players didnt pay £100 to play a tournament where the prize pool was approx. £6000 with 125 players (ignoring the cost of playing 3 times a week to qualify).

please explain where you paid a £100?

Mike, i am glad you have had a change of heart and had this discussion in the open rather than behind your back- most of the people in the manchester league have never met you before the weekend, and it would be a shame for them to think of you as a 'forum nazi' or whatever name they chose.

I didn't have a change of heart, YOU stopped posting abusive threads, so i stopped deleting them!

[Alex_B]

You seem to think that us Southerners jumped out of bed at 11am on Sunday, drove 4 minutes up the road and suddenly arrived at the Towers!!!!!

It takes 2 hours to get there from Bath and when you add the cost of a hotel in Didcot - you paid hardly anything more than us. So please stop using that as an excuse for everything. If there is a next time, we will be more than happy to travel up to you, we don't mind paying for a couple of nights in a hotel, especially when you look at the prizes on offer.

Tinlid said "but what you are not taking into account is that we was asked to make a sacrifice. That sacrifice entailed a 2 day stay in a hotel, a 7 hour round trip drive, and a day off work. This was accepted on the basis that the venue was "PERFECT".

You accepted this sacrifice??? To kind I'm sure. No, what you accepted was a seat in a tournament with a 1 in 120 chance of playing in the wsop. I certainly don't believe you made any more of a sacrifice than any other person who made the effort to play in the event; southern or Northern.

If you felt the distance was too far then no one forced you into your car and onto the motorway. No one made you drive to Didcot. You were there for the same reason as everyone else; because you wanted to win that seat!! Its already been stated that you would have held the game in a car park if you had needed to. So I would have thought a warm room with a bar (which we had) would be a vast improvement on the car park!

"And no its not free. Please understand that the league is a commercial entity. In that we are the customers, we pay for its very existence".

I'm at a loss to understand how you come to the conclusion that the LPL is not free for you to play in and that you somehow keep it afloat. You go to the pub and you play poker, no one charges you anything to play the game - if you don't want to spend money you sit and drink water, the amount of money you spend in the pub is totally up to you. What you're doing is effectively nothing more than going down the pub for a drink with the added bonus of a free game of poker that could possibly earn you money or prizes at the end of the month. So please forgive me if I don't declare my unreserved thanks to you for keeping the LPL afloat.

"Use decent tables, it does effect the game"

You lost because there was fluff on the table - hmmm, I can see how that would have affected you game, it must have been very difficult to concentrate on your cards with the distraction of green fluff on the table......

"Look at what was promised, and look at what was delivered. It not even close".

Are you serious with that comment or were you actually having a laugh at this point? Tell me what actually was promised to you then. Because as I recall:
You were promised an event where you would get top play for a seat in wsop - that's what you got.
You were promised a warm venue with a bar - I believe I saw a bar there.
You were promised there would be a tournament on Saturday evening - I recall playing in it.
You were promised cash games and STT's when people went out of the main event - Blimey, we got that as well!!!!
You were promised sandwiches on the day - oh!! You've got me there...... lol

So please tell me what promises you feel were reneged on? What were you promised that you didn't actually receive? Because as far as I can see, everything that was advertised, was delivered. I definitely recall 3 seats being given away at the end of the evening - AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT WAS WHAT WAS PROMISED. Evidently you did not like the location, the venue, the food, the Saturday tournament, the structure, the blinds, the starting stack, the payout or the £1 rake, but none of that equates to broken promises on Mike's or anyone elses part - I'm afraid it just equates to you expecting way too much from a FREE poker league that's giving you a FREE chance to pay in the wsop.

"I think your loyality to the league is admirable, but you are defending the indefensible".

It's not a question loyalty, its a question of expectations. You're playing in a FREE poker league, you're playing for a FREE seat at the wsop and you complain about having to travel 3 hours to play in the game - its a good job you didn't win because as far as I know, the wsop isn't being held in Manchester this year, and heaven forbid you'd have to travel!!

Finally, I'm defending something that doesn't really need defending, but definitely doesn't deserve the slating its receiving from what I can only assume to be a bad loser..... (I base that statement on the fact that I have not seen one critisising post from any of the three winners), who as far as I remember all played under the same conditions that you did.

One thing I do know is that The League will continue to go from strength to strength - if you feel that Mike mislead you and told you lies and that you no longer wish to play in LPL then you don't play in it, it's as simple as that. But I guarantee that for every one person who decides not to attend the LPL after this, there will be 5 people more than happy to take your seat.

Alex

[waltypies]

Originally Posted by Alex_B

And just to put the record straight, and i did mention this to a few guys who appeared to have heard the same thing at the venue, Nick Wright is the fellow you mention and he is not a pro or sponsored player (alhough he'd like to be, eh Nick )

Zomg this is the funniest thing i have heard for a while!! Nick W a sponsored player!! FFS he just enjoys the game the same as everyone else. Just because he is better than a few of the fish out there they now think he is a pro LMAO