Poker etiquette???

[sair*]

I read the rules of poker etiquette last night and was disgusted to find how out of order so many ppl (including myself from time to time) are at the poker table, there were alot of things i agreed with and have pointed out in the past before reading these rules.
[U]I hate ppl grabbing there cards out of the middle of the table after they have been mucked and monday night (31st August) at seven someone came to Weston from a different venue in Bristol and made a complete t**t out of themselves by pushing his mucked cards in someones face who was still in the hand at which point i said we all had to see them, he grabbed two random cards out of the mucked pile and turned them over then continued to find his by turning over countless mucked cards and tried to insist we carried on with the hand, how ridiculous!!![/U]
I ended up having to call for the person running the venue to resolve the situation and the whole hand had to be re-dealt!!
Can you please provide each venue with a copy of these poker etiquette rules so everyone can read them, i know my swearing at the table is an issue and i will ensure i stop as best i can but the problem highlighted above was past swearing or poker etiquette, it was ridiculous.
Sorry for going on abit there but anyone who knows me knows i could talk forever so anyone who reads this has got off quite lightly, lol xx

[alexross1977]

the guy is a dick for ruining the hand for everyone.. i wouldn't invite him back either, or play with him/her again if i could help it

[RayWSM]

This is what Sair is commenting on

Poker etiquette are not rules, but manners that relate to the orderly maintenance of the game and the players that who participate.

A player who repeatedly violates poker etiquette is a disruption to the game and should be warned and disciplined if necessary

General Etiquette

Be polite.
Do not swear or be verbally abusive.
English only to be spoken at the table.
Be modest when you win.
Refrain from criticizing another player's play.
Limit unnecessary chatter to avoid disturbing active players.

Table Presence

Manage your table space reasonably.
Keep your chips on the table and in clear view to other players.
Do not handle another player's chips or cards.
Do not stack chips in a way that interferes with the deal, the viewing of cards, or another player.
Chips on the table are not to be transferred from one player to another.
Protect your cards so that no one else can see them.
Keep your cards on the table. Holding cards against your shirt or putting them in your pocket or lap is not allowed.

Play

Play at a reasonable speed.
It is each player's responsibility to follow the flow of the game. Play in turn. Do not act out of turn.
At no time should any player or spectator make statements that could unfairly influence the play of a hand.
Do not comment about the cards you just threw away.
When cards are folded/mucked they remain mucked, even if they were folded by mistake.
Do not go through the folded/mucked cards at any time during the hand or after the showdown.

Bettingspam

Do not splash the pot (throw your chips)
Do not string bet (placing chips in multiple actions or movements unless stated verbally)
Verbally announce your action, so that all players know your intentions.
Chips and discards should be placed as far forward as reasonably possible to make it easier for the dealer to handle them.
When discarding your hand, do so towards the dealer at a low level of flight so that no other player can see what you have discarded.
Do not expose any cards until the showdown, unless players are all-in and no further betting can take place.

The Showdown

Do not mis-declare your hand intentionally.
Show your winning hand quickly. Do not "slow-roll" (allow your opponent to think he's won when you know he hasn't).
Rabbit hunting (asking to see what cards would have appeared, had you bet) should not be allowed.
Expose both cards together.

Please follow these points in the best interest of the game and enjoy the friendly atmosphere

[LPL_Mike]

Originally Posted by RayWSM

This is what Sair is commenting on

Poker etiquette are not rules, but manners that relate to the orderly maintenance of the game and the players that who participate.

A player who repeatedly violates poker etiquette is a disruption to the game and should be warned and disciplined if necessary

General Etiquette

Be polite.
Do not swear or be verbally abusive.
English only to be spoken at the table.
Be modest when you win.
Refrain from criticizing another player's play.
Limit unnecessary chatter to avoid disturbing active players.

Table Presence

Manage your table space reasonably.
Keep your chips on the table and in clear view to other players.
Do not handle another player's chips or cards.
Do not stack chips in a way that interferes with the deal, the viewing of cards, or another player.
Chips on the table are not to be transferred from one player to another.
Protect your cards so that no one else can see them.
Keep your cards on the table. Holding cards against your shirt or putting them in your pocket or lap is not allowed.

Play

Play at a reasonable speed.
It is each player's responsibility to follow the flow of the game. Play in turn. Do not act out of turn.
At no time should any player or spectator make statements that could unfairly influence the play of a hand.
Do not comment about the cards you just threw away.
When cards are folded/mucked they remain mucked, even if they were folded by mistake.
Do not go through the folded/mucked cards at any time during the hand or after the showdown.

Bettingspam

Do not splash the pot (throw your chips)
Do not string bet (placing chips in multiple actions or movements unless stated verbally)
Verbally announce your action, so that all players know your intentions.
Chips and discards should be placed as far forward as reasonably possible to make it easier for the dealer to handle them.
When discarding your hand, do so towards the dealer at a low level of flight so that no other player can see what you have discarded.
Do not expose any cards until the showdown, unless players are all-in and no further betting can take place.

The Showdown

Do not mis-declare your hand intentionally.
Show your winning hand quickly. Do not "slow-roll" (allow your opponent to think he's won when you know he hasn't).
Rabbit hunting (asking to see what cards would have appeared, had you bet) should not be allowed.
Expose both cards together.

Please follow these points in the best interest of the game and enjoy the friendly atmosphere

Thank you Ray that is very helpful, i will get some printed up and passed around.
Anyone who goes fishing for their cards in the muck pile to see what they gave away is a BIG NO NO in poker, turning over the cards is even worse!

[Emceehamster]

Here's one...

In a game last week a player went all in. He was called by one other player and others folded round to me. I was the last to act. I was holding ace nine unsuited and was considering calling. As it made no difference if my cards were seen, I turned them over so all could see my dilemma. I then folded straight away, as had been my intention when I turned the cards.

The problem was, one of the all in players also has ace nine unsuited and had a right go at me for "ruining his chances". I pointed out that whether he saw my cards or not would not have any effect on the hand, but he got all pissy, saying what I had done breached "poker etiquette". Of course, he lost to a pocket pair and went out in a huff.

Was what I did wrong? I didn't influence the outcome of the game or anyones betting. I've seen other people do it and it never bothers me. If it scuppered my own chances of winning an all in by them having some of the cards I wanted I would just accept it, not have a go. After all, seeing them doesn't change a thing, except you are now aware that your odds of winning are shortened.

In addition, is it proper to state what hand you have when betting is still going on, either to bluff by lying or double bluff by telling the truth?

[ian_distort]

I'm afraid that would be considered bad form, old bean. What-o.

It sort of takes away from the showdown if someone goes "oooh, I'm folding, but here's what I've got anyway", especially if you happen to have the same hand. Just wait until the end of the hand, by which point you'll be relieved you didn't call the bet and not want to show anyone, anyway.

Right, I'm off to break this hoodoo The Ladybrook clearly has on me.

[drwinston]

Originally Posted by RayWSM

Refrain from criticizing another player's play.
Keep your cards on the table. Holding cards against your shirt or putting them in your pocket or lap is not allowed.
It is each player's responsibility to follow the flow of the game. Play in turn. Do not act out of turn.
Do not comment about the cards you just threw away.
When cards are folded/mucked they remain mucked, even if they were folded by mistake.
Do not go through the folded/mucked cards at any time during the hand or after the showdown.
Do not splash the pot (throw your chips)
Show your winning hand quickly. Do not "slow-roll" (allow your opponent to think he's won when you know he hasn't).
Rabbit hunting (asking to see what cards would have appeared, had you bet) should not be allowed.
Expose both cards together.

This could be fun. These I would say are the most common in the Weston games. Especially the "I'm folding but nursing" and "can we rabbit that" !!!
Lets hope we can erradicate this russish

[Cantona]

IMO - your circumstance is a few and far between occurance, and although your actions made not a blind bit of difference, for the sake of etiquette its probably best to adhere to the best practice of not revealing.

A couple of reasons for this:

First, why bother? Your gaining nothing in revealing, (to your opponents), and only giving away tells of your game. Unless you were advertising If so who are you and where do you play ??

Second, avoid the confrontation. Whilst most understand that you coud not affect the outcome, there are many a nmpty out there that will just see that as acceptable etiquette, and you could well be on the recieving end of said numpty revealling when all is not done and dusted. So in the name of improving the standard, muck and shush !

The first point should be more important to you than the second btw

[Cantona]

IMO - your circumstance is a few and far between occurance, and although your actions made not a blind bit of difference, for the sake of etiquette its probably best to adhere to the best practice of not revealing.

A couple o reasons for this:

First, why bother your gaining nothing and revealing, (to your opponents), tells of your game.

Second, avoid the confrontation. Whilst most understand that you coud not affect the outcome, there are many a nmpty out there that will just see that as acceptable etiquette, and you could well be on the recieving end of said numpty revealling when all is not done and dusted. So in the name of improving the standard, muck and shush !

The first point should be more important to you than the second btw

[Emceehamster]

I was more annoyed at his OTT reaction than anything else.

I get wound up when people get pissy at what is essentially a free poker game. If you play poker, you're gonna get bad beats. No point getting all ;airy about it.

That said, if you fluke a win, have the good grace not to gloat. We have a player in Weston called Mad Dog who needs to control this or someone might decide he needs putting down. get lucky if you want, but do it witha little style.

ANy comemnts on the hand revealing query?