Are online slots really random?

**jjh** · 29th March 2007, 11:30 AM

KK, I wasn't aware the majority of your profit came from bonuses!

But if you were to actually profit in the longterm from solely playing the online slots, then they CANNOT be random.

Anything that is random, such as roulette, would need a house edge to secure the online casino's profits in the longterm, thus making a random game unbeatable.

So if you can play online slots and come out on top, then you're either manipulating them similar to a AWP (certain plays etc) thus there's nothing random about it.

**KasinoKing** · 29th March 2007, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by jjh

KK, I wasn't aware the majority of your profit came from bonuses!

But if you were to actually profit in the longterm from solely playing the online slots, then they CANNOT be random.

Anything that is random, such as roulette, would need a house edge to secure the online casino's profits in the longterm, thus making a random game unbeatable.

So if you can play online slots and come out on top, then you're either manipulating them similar to a AWP (certain plays etc) thus there's nothing random about it.

I can't really argue with anything you said there - otherwise I would be contradicting myself!

I haven't actually analyzed all my figures because it would take a week! (I've recorded even single deposit & withdrawal I've ever made online since May-2001 - and I play nearly every day) So to be honest I'm not sure if my overall profit in that time is > or < than the total value of the bonuses I've had.

I obviously do believe (most) online slots are random in the same way a real-life roulette wheel is.
However, there are certain strategies which can be used with truly random slots which can not be applied to roulette as they work in different ways.
I will post them here later (it's late now, I'm tired & don't have the time or the energy).
I'm certainly not saying I've developed a foolproof way to beat the slots, otherwise I wouldn't be typing this now - I'd be off playing & making myself into a millionaire! (I wish

)
It's much the same as the 'skilled' fruit machine players who also post here - they know ways to get the most out of fruities (forcing & so on), but if their methods could make them a guaranteed high income they probably wouldn't bother with this forum either!

Catch you later - goodnight!

**Wuddle** · 30th March 2007, 01:18 AM

Ahh, my bad mate.

Thought you were comparing online fruit machines to the AWPs.

But yeah, aren't the online slots the same as the section 16's you can find in any arcade nowadays? 25 winlines etc or are there differences in ways they pay out/are regulated.

Regards

**DannyC** · 30th March 2007, 11:44 AM

Yes majority of them are, but believe you me, they are not regulated in the same way

**jjh** · 30th March 2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by KasinoKing

I can't really argue with anything you said there - otherwise I would be contradicting myself!

I haven't actually analyzed all my figures because it would take a week! (I've recorded even single deposit & withdrawal I've ever made online since May-2001 - and I play nearly every day) So to be honest I'm not sure if my overall profit in that time is > or < than the total value of the bonuses I've had.

I obviously do believe (most) online slots are random in the same way a real-life roulette wheel is.
However, there are certain strategies which can be used with truly random slots which can not be applied to roulette as they work in different ways.
I will post them here later (it's late now, I'm tired & don't have the time or the energy).
I'm certainly not saying I've developed a foolproof way to beat the slots, otherwise I wouldn't be typing this now - I'd be off playing & making myself into a millionaire! (I wish

)
It's much the same as the 'skilled' fruit machine players who also post here - they know ways to get the most out of fruities (forcing & so on), but if their methods could make them a guaranteed high income they probably wouldn't bother with this forum either!

Catch you later - goodnight!

I look forward to your post. Interesting stuff

But I would always insist that if a casino, arcade or online bookmaker puts up any game where the outcome of a spin of the wheel or spin of the fruits is random, then this would have to have a built in house edge similar to that of a roulette table as mentioned.

The arcades online casinos etc operate to make money hence the machines are at 94% payout instead of 100%. Whether this payout percentage is worked out for the extreme longterm I don't know but the very fact it has a percentage kind of indicates it is all controlled anyway.

But my main point is if it is totally random, then no one can win on them in the longterm, because of the house edge that would be required. No one can beat Roulette and no one can beat a totally random slot machine in the longterm, unless it is controlled payout, in which case we all know we can play AWP machines for profit by understanding how they work...tell tale signs and patterns etc...

**DannyC** · 31st March 2007, 10:46 AM

Wow, this was being battered nearly 2 years back too...

Take a look and judge for yourself, I think the concept is going out of the window, fast.

http://www.gambling.co.uk/forums/gen...tion-16-a.html

**stew** · 31st March 2007, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by DannyC

Wow, this was being battered nearly 2 years back too...

Take a look and judge for yourself, I think the concept is going out of the window, fast.

http://www.gambling.co.uk/forums/gen...tion-16-a.html

Oh the days

**Stuart4000** · 11th April 2007, 11:20 AM

I'm certainly not from the Danny C branch of expertise, but the topic of randomization got me thinking, and having had to register to yet another site just to post a comment on what i've been reading, here goes...

For talking sake, an S16 uses the seed 1-10000, with each spin of the machine and therefore each seed number effectively costing £1. Now 1 seed number has to be the illusive £500 Jackpot spin, so we're left with 9999. Of those, we'll say that 7499 of them are 'no win' spins, leaving 2500 seed numbers left. These numbers are then given wins of varying size, with the total amount of wins ( including our jackpot win) equalling £9400. (The numbers i've used above maybe be unrepresentative of an S16, but they'll do for my example).

If it costs £10000 to go through every seed number, and without going into number theory, randomization or owt like that, just accepting the RNG for what it is meant to be, would this not constitute an average payout of 94%?