Random Spinner

[Choptastic]

these machines are not random......if they were then there is as much chance of a jackpot as a lose every spin on every line, which doesnt correspond to the percentage which is usually set at 94%, even if you say it averages out over the long term ie instead of paying 94 for every 100 it pays 94000 for every 100,000 then its still playing to a percentage which isnt random!! why doesn't any s16 give 5 big wins in a row yet give up to 20,30 or even 50 loses before a small to middle win?

i cant believe that with 20 lines and only a few different symbols including wilds that you can randomly lose such a higher percentage of the time than win, the only way that could be possible is if out of say 50,000 different symbol combinations, 49000 of them are losers so the chance of a random win is so small that it would barely hit, rendering the machine almost impossible to win from, but that doesnt explain the percentage offered

actually this post has made me think of something i didnt realise before so i'll post again once i've done a bit of research on something

That post is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

[Prowler]

That post is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

your right chopley, i was way off the mark..... as i said while writing that i realised something and think i've worked out a truer definition of how they actually work.....of course any helpful input from you would of been more useful to us all than just telling me i was wrong but i guess not knowing where to start made it difficult for you too!

anyway, from what i've since learned, the reels arent random, they just display symbols which correspond to a random number/numbers thats assigned to the number/s chosen by the rng when you press the button, basicly speaking the machine has however many numbers assigned to lose or different win amounts and randomly picks one then puts whatever symbols on the reels to represent that amount, say it uses numbers 1-1000 (obviously its way more than that) which relate to every combination of lose plus every possible win combination, ie 1=lose, 2=50p, 3=lose, 197=25, 350=20, 659=lose etc, the % relates to the amount of prizes spread over the numbers it uses, at 1 pound a spin with 10,000 numbers the prize values will add up to 92% of 10000 pounds, in other words the money/prize values available to you once you put that quid in add up to 9,200 pounds split up into many small wins, a few mid wins and hardly any big wins plus a lot of losses

i'm guessing that playing 20 lines means the machine has to pick 20 random numbers and given the rarity of big wins on these machines, if i assume out of the 20000 numbers 350 of them relate to 25quid (a very generous assumption) the chance of me getting 20 of the 350/20000 is so unlikely that if i bothered to work out the odds i'd be better off buying a lottery ticket!

i'm not sure how i see these machines now.....maybe they are random, but they are set up in a way that gives you no real chance, like a scaled down lottery, or whether they do have some sort of 'intelligence' to even things out, how can you test a machine for months if its random? why do they have different profiles.....loads of small wins/rare jp's, average wins, few wins/occasional jp's?

does anyone else know how these machines work? or what legal guidelines they have to follow?

if mr turnip would pm me and possibly give me some help/insight into s16's it would be appreciated

[MattB]

The percentage is partly controlled by the feature games built in to all of them.
If it has not paid any decent reel wins for a while, it can just pick a higher win off the feature to get the % back to what it should be. Likewise if it pays out a great deal, features will more than likely be flat, and it'll keep this way going until it recoups, which over time it's bound to do.

Ultimately it might say 94% payout, but frm reel wins its going to be a long way below that. People are easily suckered in......

Matt

[SteveV2]

The percentage is partly controlled by the feature games built in to all of them.
If it has not paid any decent reel wins for a while, it can just pick a higher win off the feature to get the % back to what it should be. Likewise if it pays out a great deal, features will more than likely be flat, and it'll keep this way going until it recoups, which over time it's bound to do.

Ultimately it might say 94% payout, but frm reel wins its going to be a long way below that. People are easily suckered in......

Matt

And how does a random machine know when it's behind %?

[MattB]

Just because it's random doesn't mean its missing payout % information.

Say it takes £3000 and gives out £1700 in a combo of reel wins and features. That's only 57% payout. It could spin in a feature game and give out say £300. That would boost it up to 66%, and so on.

That's a very hypothetical equation mind....but shows how it can be controlled to a degree.

Matt

[John Holmes' Stunt C**K]

On a similar subject, does anyone know how the payout percentage works on non-random machines.

Say, just for example, a machine at 80%, does this literally mean that:

If you put in a pound, 80p goes into a "prize fund" and the other 20p goes into machines profit.

The amount in the prize fund (ie, the hopper) decides how well the machine will play, and obviously how much you will win.

The reason I ask this is because I was in a debate with a guy yesterday who claimed it was purely based on the %, ie, if the current % was 90%, then the machine would need to take money back to get it back to 80%, and obviously vice-versa when the current % was at 70%.

[MattB]

On a similar subject, does anyone know how the payout percentage works on non-random machines.

Say, just for example, a machine at 80%, does this literally mean that:

If you put in a pound, 80p goes into a "prize fund" and the other 20p goes into machines profit.

The amount in the prize fund (ie, the hopper) decides how well the machine will play, and obviously how much you will win.

The reason I ask this is because I was in a debate with a guy yesterday who claimed it was purely based on the %, ie, if the current % was 90%, then the machine would need to take money back to get it back to 80%, and obviously vice-versa when the current % was at 70%.

The payout is worked out over thousands of spins - say 10,000. As far as i'm aware there's no prize fund....though some machines build a streak bank up....which is why machines that get regular forcing tend not to drop big streaks. The machines do drift under and over %, and will compensate either with bigger wins or dead boards until it recoups what is needed to get closer to its set %.
The amount in the hoppers is also irrelevant. The machine doesn't physically know how much is in the hoppers - why is why refills can be misleading.

Matt

[SteveV2]

Just because it's random doesn't mean its missing payout % information.

Say it takes £3000 and gives out £1700 in a combo of reel wins and features. That's only 57% payout. It could spin in a feature game and give out say £300. That would boost it up to 66%, and so on.

That's a very hypothetical equation mind....but shows how it can be controlled to a degree.

Matt

Ok, it may know what % it's running at but it still has too pick out a random number, and a big win to get it back.

Features are totally false. On random spinner, it picks out number 6, that's a £30 win for e.g. It will either spin in 3 wheels and give a feature win for £30 or spin in a combo of reel wins adding to £30 or 3 dice for £30.

It could have taken £3000 and paid out £1. Thats the randomness of the game It's still got to find that 1 number out of probably thousands.

[gtbunny]

Slightly off topic but has anybody noticed any random spinners/clones having 3p in credit??? seen a few popping up all over with this. Think its a bit odd seeing as ya cant put 1 or 2p coins in.....

[Xuenilom]

Slightly off topic but has anybody noticed any random spinners/clones having 3p in credit??? seen a few popping up all over with this. Think its a bit odd seeing as ya cant put 1 or 2p coins in.....

I think this is being done to stop manipulation of credits.