flopping four to a straight/flush

**steburnst** · 27th May 2008, 10:13 PM

this is something i've been thinking about and i'm just wondering what you guys think on the matter

say you get to the flop and you're first to act with one, maybe two, other players and you have four to a straight or a flush but nothing more. obviously the free card is what you want but i'm curious about the idea of putting in a small bet to control the size of the bet and give you a cheap card rather than checking, being raised and then having to put in a larger call to get the turn card.

i know this is all very general and the type of player you're playing would make a difference but i'm curious to hear some ideas/experiences on this

**Steve A** · 27th May 2008, 10:33 PM

It's difficult to give a simple answer to this as there are so many variables, such as what was the preflop action, how loose/tight are your opponents, how deep are the stacks, is it a tournament or a cash game, if tourney how far in are we, what's the texture of the flop etc..etc.., but speaking very generally a good sized bet of between half and two thirds of the pot would be my move if I thought there was a reasonable chance that my opponent(s) could fold there and then

**steburnst** · 27th May 2008, 10:37 PM

so you're saying playing the bluff rather than playing for the card is the better move?

**JiggeryPokery** · 27th May 2008, 10:48 PM

I flopped 4 to a STRAIGHT FLUSH the other night in a live game, but it was fairly early in the F/O tourney, and when some nobhead went all-in on the flop I decided to fold rather than risk my tourney life at that early stage. Later on, depending on stacks and blinds, I'd have called the all-in. As Steve A says, there are so many variabes in assessing your question, but that was my play in that situation.

**steburnst** · 27th May 2008, 11:03 PM

yeah, i realise it's ridiculously general. i'm just trying to see what you think about the idea of making a bet to control bet size so you can get cheap cards

**Steve A** · 28th May 2008, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by steburnst

yeah, i realise it's ridiculously general. i'm just trying to see what you think about the idea of making a bet to control bet size so you can get cheap cards

So much depends on the players behind you. In some cases a small bet might be a good idea, but generally I think not. A good player with a made hand behind you will raise you off your draw, so you're basically just giving him more chips before you have to lay it down, and a small "control" bet may also give draws other than you the pot odds to call. If you make it a decent sized bet you stand more chance of finding out where you are in the hand, plus you are far more likely to get a decent return on those occasions when you make your hand, as there'll be more in the pot encouraging crying calls later on from the guys behind you who can't lay down their big pairs. The move you're making is a semi-bluff, but if it's generally a smaller bet than you'd make with a good made hand, then the wise players behind you will soon catch on and you'll be spewing chips to them every time you're on a draw. If you are going to make a bet, make it the same size you would if you'd flopped a made hand, otherwise check and see how those behind you act first and go from there. Mix it up.