Being blinded out versus calling a raise

[wilfuljoker]

I was recently playing in a live tourney and was totally card dead. We were down to last 17 and on my table there seemed to be only short stacks and big stacks (no one in the middle). I was down to 6 BBs and knew that I had to shove as soon as possible. But my cards continued to be awful: 94o, J4o, 47s, etc. I went down to 4 BBs waiting to see if even an ace, a king or any suited connectors turned up but when they did someone always raised in front of me. Never even saw a pair. This was either the short stacks going all in or the big stacks bullying us. At what point do you call a raise with any two cards? Or do you just keep waiting on the basis that doubling up with 2 or 3 BBs on an open raise is better than just chucking your chips in when you probably have no chance? I worry that you lose the "first in vigorish" (ref Harrington) if you aren't the one doing the raising. Normally you would need a stronger hand than you think they have to call but I was running out of options. Blinds went up and I was suddenly on only two BBs so I had to shove (hardly the right word for it!) utg with 79s. Got called by two over cards and no miracle. Is this a case of "thats poker" or should I have taken my chance and called one of the raises with atc?

[piquetb]

I see guys hang in and hang on and they always get KK before they blind away. Mind you it leaves a lot to ask after that. I had a sng yesterday and we were down to three and one guy just went all in virtually every hand. I hung on and on until we were heads up and just waited for an ace better than A6. Which held up. But its kind of annoying to be f**d over so often. If I had lost I would have been super unhappy.

[Dice Man]

If there are no antes, so you have absolutely nothing invested, then there's no real point putting your chips in with a below-average hand. If you're really low (say 1-2BB), and somebody raises before you, it might be worth calling all in with a mediocre hand if you suspect the blinds will fold. If you had 1 blind then you'd be getting 2.5-1 on your blind.

I suppose sometimes a small suited connector might be the favourite in a multi-way pot as well, but not by very much. Those are hands that I'd fold in a regular game pre-flop if there is no action behind me that are worth calling raises with if there is good action behind you.

[PokerWoody]

I'd have gone in with 94o, J4o or 47s personally.

[wilfuljoker]

Originally Posted by PokerWoody

I'd have gone in with 94o, J4o or 47s personally.

Because....

[RevStu]

Originally Posted by wilfuljoker

Because....

Because he's mental. It really depends on the situation - if you're in a tournament near the money and you've got absolute garbage, the only sensible thing to do is hang on by your fingernails, including going down to less than 1bb, and wait for everyone else to fight each other in the hope they'll earn you some money for your efforts up to now. (Last night I had an endless miserable parade of 82o and J3o in a league game, saw three flops and two rivers in 90 minutes, and still managed to fold into the big points - or what would have been the money in a cash tournament - because I could see that everyone else was playing crazy loose and I could just wait out the carnage and actually get some reward for my time.)

If you're nowhere near the money, have no fold equity and need to double up before you bleed to death, something like 74s (suited, connectable, pretty likely to be live cards) has a smidgen of merit, likewise the 79s you eventually went in with, but I'd rather get blinded out than call a raise for all my chips with 94o or J4o - in fact, I'd rather shag Johnny Vegas than call with 94o or J4o.

[tfeilding]

If I find I am down to around 3 or 4 BB then I'm more likely to get my chips in if a biggish stack has already raised. My logic is their range on the big stack is going to be wider than high pairs and I don't mind my J9 going up against AK. The main reason though is he acts like a shield. Others tighten up when they see a biggish stack raise and a small stack shove. Its unlikely to become a multiway pot and so you are more likely to win.

[waltypies]

Originally Posted by wilfuljoker

Because....

You have no stack so you might as well gamboooooooooooooooooooool

[Professor]

WTF....You cannot.. and must not... go with most of the above advice.....It`s nuts.

Allowing your stack to go below eight BBs is plain suicidal as, you will get called by all sorts of hands and will have to get very lucky to survive. You just have to fire, sure you may get a monster with 1or 2 BBs left but.... it will do you no good you will be back in the shit in a couple more hands time! Wait for the button or cut off and push with any two playable cards you need to have bullets to fire to win ...DONT EVER GET BLINDED OFF.....

[PokerWoody]

Originally Posted by wilfuljoker

Because....

Because you will often still have some fold equity with 6bb's, especially if rest of the table is short, and I'd prefer to go out than play a stack less than that. The value of doubling up is worth taking the chance. I think i'd have made a light move before 6bb's, at about 9 or 10 bb's, to avoid having to do this. At 6bb's i'm just looking for a spot to push any two, i have no interested in holding on by my fingernails, especially in a MTT where the early payouts are so rubbish. It is simply much harder to recover your stack when you drop any lower than 6, and 6 is prob already a little on the low side.