Being blinded out versus calling a raise

[lucky_scrote]

I wanted to scratch my eyes out with rusty nails until I got down to the prof's post.

There is a point in tourney poker when your stack is so low that you cannot let it get any lower, in a well known book you are put into zones. Dropping below roughly 8BB's is very dangerous.

If you get yourself into this situation again and have just gone down to 7BB's I recommend shoving into the pot as soon as it is folded to you, the later your position the better. I am not going to go through my reasoning but I am just telling you this is absolutely correct.


Some of the advice above Prof's is just terrible

[tfeilding]

Sometimes you find yourself with just a few BB because you lost a big pot though.

I tend to work on 5 BB as being critical, but then many of the live games I play get crap shooty towards the end when it is not uncommon for the average to be around 5BB.

[RevStu]

Originally Posted by lucky_scrote

I wanted to scratch my eyes out with rusty nails until I got down to the prof's post.

There is a point in tourney poker when your stack is so low that you cannot let it get any lower, in a well known book you are put into zones. Dropping below roughly 8BB's is very dangerous.

Some of the advice above Prof's is just terrible

Yeah, but it's rather more useful than yours or his, because in Judi's post she's ALREADY down below 8bbs. It's a fat lot of good telling her not to have a stack that low when she already has. The rest of us are just answering the question that was asked, not a completely different one.

[lucky_scrote]

Originally Posted by RevStu

Yeah, but it's rather more useful than yours or his, because in Judi's post she's ALREADY down below 8bbs. It's a fat lot of good telling her not to have a stack that low when she already has. The rest of us are just answering the question that was asked, not a completely different one.

stack less than 8BB's = shove when you get the chance, either any 2 in late position or something like 98 is fine early position. I'm shoving 23o anywhere in late position if im this player.

[RevStu]

Again, though, you're telling her to go back in time and do something different, which isn't an option for us non-TimeLord users of the forum. You might as well say "Get some good cards!" or "Play better!" for all the use your advice is to Judi in the situation she's in. And as Tom points out, you might not have the choice to make a move on 8bbs anyway - you might have had 40bbs and lost 34 of them in a single pot to some horrible suckout. What then?

So given for the sake of argument that we're IN that situation and it's too late to do anything about it, the core question, I guess, is this: is it better to be all-in with 94o and 6bbs, or KK and 2bbs? Or as Judi put it herself,

At what point do you call a raise with any two cards? Or do you just keep waiting on the basis that doubling up with 2 or 3 BBs on an open raise is better than just chucking your chips in when you probably have no chance?

Personally I'll take the KK-with-2bbs option every time, partly because you'll probably have several people in the pot (since you're not going to make anyone fold) and if you win you'll probably get at least a quadruple-up back to a reasonably playable stack.

[PokerWoody]

Originally Posted by RevStu

Again, though, you're telling her to go back in time and do something different, which isn't an option for us non-Timelord users of the forum. You may as well say "Get better cards" for all the good that is to Judi in the situation she's in. And as Tom points out, you might not have the choice to make a move on 8bbs anyway - you might have had 40bbs and lost 34 of them in a single pot to some horrible suckout. What then?

wilfuiljoker said she'd been getting 'unplayable' hands like 47s, 94o etc. What we are saying is that these hands aren't necessarily unplayable. There comes a point when your stack dictates you should make a move, not your cards. In this instance she didn't lose 34 big blinds as part of a suckout, in this instance she made the bigger mistakes of blinding down, and is now wondering about a question that shouldn't really exist.

Should she have lost 34 big blinds as part of a horrible suckout, then shoving nearly any two cards when she has those 6 big blinds is the the thing to do.

Originally Posted by RevStu

is it better to be all-in with 94o and 6bbs, or KK and 2bbs?

easily 94o imo.

[RevStu]

Originally Posted by PokerWoody

wilfuiljoker said she'd been getting 'unplayable' hands like 47s, 94o etc. What we are saying is that these hands aren't necessarily unplayable. There comes a point when your stack dictates you should make a move, not your cards. In this instance she didn't lose 34 big blinds as part of a suckout, in this instance she made the bigger mistakes of blinding down, and is now wondering about a question that shouldn't really exist.

Or yet again, "Go back in time and don't be in the situation you're in", which is about as useless as "advice" gets.

But you have (eventually) answered the question, so: WHY is 94o x 6bb better than KK x 2bb? Realistically, the only way you're going to win with 94o is if you make everyone fold, since it's one of the shittest hands possible. So you'll get the blinds, lifting you from 6bb to 7.5bb, and achieving nothing more than buying yourself a free orbit to hopefully get better cards. BUT you risk of being called by any reasonably good sb or bb hand and almost certainly losing - remember, you're playing short stacks and big stacks, no medium ones, so either a short stack will call you with any half-decent hand out of desperation, or a big stack will call you for fun because they can afford to risk 6bb to take someone out, and either way you're 99%-certainly the underdog.

Whereas with a good hand, you might easily get one or two limpers and the sb and bb in the pot, meaning if you win you're up to 8bb or 10bb, a substantially better position. (Plus you've got some credibility for your next shove.)

Of course, there's no guarantee that you'll get that good hand if you cling on, but the chances of getting a hand substantially better than 94o in the 14 or 15 hands it'll take you to get from 6bb to 2bb are very high indeed.

[waltypies]

KK vs 4 other callers?!?!?

I am taking the 9,4o everyday of the week

[PokerWoody]

Does it matter what my, or anyones reasons are? You are not going to take anything anyone says on board, you have already made your mind up. We've been here too many times before.

I think limiting this thread to responses from wilfuljoker will be much more productive than responses to your trolling.

[waltypies]

Originally Posted by PokerWoody

Does it matter what my, or anyones reasons are? You are not going to take anything anyone says on board, you have already made your mind up. We've been here too many times before.

I think limiting this thread to responses from wilfuljoker will be much more productive than responses to your trolling.

QFTMFT