How much do you lose here?

[Dice Man]

I just had this hand happen. How do you all play it differently? I'm assuming we all get away from this but how much do you lose before you do?

$10 NL (Real /Tournament )
Seat 1: t16101975m (1500.00)
Seat 2: jimmyfry (1485.00)
Seat 3: Themancunia (1470.00)
Seat 4: Pinke (1500.00)
Seat 5: samirhbs (1500.00)
Seat 6: mummy48 (1950.00)
Seat 7: polkamonkey (1500.00)
Seat 8: imper1 (1095.00)
Seat 9: Dice Man (1500.00)
Seat 10: olle (1500.00)
Themancunia post SB 15.00
Pinke post BB 30.00
** Deal **
t16101975m [N/A, N/A]
jimmyfry [N/A, N/A]
Themancunia [N/A, N/A]
Pinke [N/A, N/A]
samirhbs [N/A, N/A]
mummy48 [N/A, N/A]
polkamonkey [N/A, N/A]
imper1 [N/A, N/A]
Dice Man [Ac, Ah]
olle [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
samirhbs Call 30.00
mummy48 Fold
polkamonkey Call 30.00
imper1 Fold
Dice Man Raise to 180.00
olle Fold
t16101975m Fold
jimmyfry Fold
Themancunia Fold
Pinke Fold
samirhbs Fold
polkamonkey Call 180.00
*** Flop(Board): *** : [Kh, Qc, Qh]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
polkamonkey Bet 150.00
Dice Man Raise to 300.00
polkamonkey Call 300.00
*** Turn(Board): *** : [Kh, Qc, Qh, Ks]
*** Bet Round 3 ***
polkamonkey Check
Dice Man Bet 300.00
polkamonkey All-in 1020.00
Dice Man Fold
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 1635.00
t16101975m Fold Win: 0.00
jimmyfry Fold Win: 0.00
Themancunia Fold Win: 0.00
Pinke Fold Win: 0.00
samirhbs Fold Win: 0.00
mummy48 Fold Win: 0.00
polkamonkey By default Win: 3270.00
imper1 Fold Win: 0.00
Dice Man Fold Win: 0.00


The min-raise on the flop is something I very rarely use. If he bluffs at the pot and I make the min-raise he has no choice but to fold there. If I just call his bet on the flop he can put me on any middle pair or king. That means he will bet the turn really hard, and I have no idea whether he's trying to get the most value from his queen, or if he's pushing me off my king or middle pair with a second bullet (which he would probably be successful at). With the min-raise on the flop if he goes over the top I can fold. If he calls it he tells me he has a king or a queen. I suppose JThh is another unlikely possibility, probably small enough to ignore.

He checks the turn and I am 95% certain I am beat (The other 5% he has AA, JT or JJ). I put in a fake value bet, which in hindsight I think may not have been worth doing. I don't think he's going to fold any queen. Even when he pushes I put him on a queen and probably thinking that if I call with a king he just got cold-decked and could have done nothing about it.

So how does everybody else play this?

[Dice Man]

No one makes the Dice Man fold AA and gets away with it. Despite losing most of my stack I go on to win the game.


***** Hand 697007902 *****
200.00/400.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 25 July 2007 19:07:37
STT $10 NL (Real /Tournament )
Seat 7: polkamonkey (7920.00)
Seat 9: Dice Man (7080.00)
polkamonkey post SB 200.00
Dice Man post BB 400.00
** Deal **
polkamonkey [N/A, N/A]
Dice Man [Ah, 4s]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
polkamonkey Raise to 800.00
Dice Man Call 800.00
*** Flop(Board): *** : [4c, 5h, 2d]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
Dice Man Check
polkamonkey Bet 400.00
Dice Man All-in 6280.00
polkamonkey Call 6280.00
*** Turn(Board): *** : [4c, 5h, 2d, Kh]
*** River(Board): *** : [4c, 5h, 2d, Kh, 5d]
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 14160.00
polkamonkey [Ac, 9s] Pair of fives Win: 0.00
Dice Man [Ah, 4s] Two pair fives and fours Win: 14160.00

It was all over the hand after this one, but it hasn't turned up in my history. Huzzah!

[PokerWoody]

The min-raise on the flop is something I very rarely use. If he bluffs at the pot and I make the min-raise he has no choice but to fold there.

Totally disagree, I think a min raise is great here when you WANT to get shoved on. A min raise on a board like this is a bluff nearly always (as it is when you do it here).

Call the flop bet and carry on from there. I'd probably call turn to and shut down on river.

[dancoles]

If he calls it he tells me he has a king or a queen.

And yet you still bet the turn ????

[Dice Man]

And yet you still bet the turn ????

Yep, hence I thought afterwards the turn bet was bad. At the time I was holding on to some hope he may have been there with nothing at all. By the time the board comes KKQQ he has to fold AA, JT and JJ in case he has them.