My new idea

[Dice Man]

Consider how in a 52 card deck we can categorise the cards two ways: by value and by suit. There are 13 values and 4 suits we can categorise the cards in. This means we can make a lot of interesting and fun games (poker is one). But now let us go THREE DIMENSIONAL.

Consider a deck with 105 cards.

They are: the values, A,2,3,4,5,6,7
The suits:
The kings: Charles, Edward, George, Henry, William (or whatever you like for the 3rd dimension)

Now we can play a form of poker with a completely different hierarchy of hand values. I am currently working out where some of them should go. At the moment I have done just this.

5 same value- 14/104.13/103.12/102.11/101= 0.00023
4 same value- 5x.0.9= 0.00098
5 same king- 20/104.19/103.18/102.17/101= 0.00105
4 same king- 5x.0.84= 0.00443
5 same suit- 34/104.33/103.32/102.31/101= 0.01009
full house same value- 10.14/104.13/103.14/101= 0.02355
4 same suit- 5x.0.7= 0.03530

And that's just the "group" style hands. In regular poker flushes would count as group-style hands because it is a group of cards within the same category. Now imagine adding straights to this mix, and then "straight flushes". We will suddenly have quite a big hierarchy of hands, maybe 30 or so?
This is the kind of game best played in 10 card stud or chinese poker variations, although could work with Omaha too.

The point of this game would be that there would be examples where you have a really amazingly good hand yet there are several combos that beat you. If we add to the mix several 3-card combinations (like a 3card straight king flush), they could beat seemingly good hands like 4 of the same value. This could lead to super-deep stack games. If Negreanu can lose a few hundred grand with a full house to quads how much will he lose when he has quads and someone has a 4 card straight king flush?

[Dice Man]

I seem to be considering hands like "4 diamonds" as genuine hands at the moment although we wouldn't in normal poker so I might take them out, even though getting 4 of the same suit is probably less likely than getting one pair. Also 4 cards in a 4-long straight of the same suit we don't consider to be a hand either even though it too is unlikely. Maybe it would be best to consider the whole thing as the kings being alternate to the values, and the suits being their own dimension. So 3 aces would be better than 3 henrys because there are more henrys in the deck than there are aces.

Another good thing about this game would be the possibility of sickening beats. There would only very rarely be cases where players are drawing dead by the turn, since they could always hit a pair of henry aces or something, which could be quite a powerful hand. Being dealt pocket henry aces would be the sickest thing ever.

I declare anybody who disapproves of this idea to be too stupid to conceive of its genius.

[Dice Man]

Oh yeah, a straight flush could be what it sued to be, for example A-5 of hearts. (I think we would need wraparound straights otherwise they are too rare) And we could have royal flushes which are 5 cards, one of a different king of the same suit. Royal flushes would actually be worse than straight flushes. Similarly we can have royal straights, one of each king: again worse than a normal straight.
Actually that's getting a bit confusing now since we can also have a regular straight of all the same king, and some other combos that need names.

[alexross1977]

i just bought multi-dimensionalpoker.com, just in case it kicks off.

[FirePhil]

I think you have way too much free time.

[lucky_scrote]

Originally Posted by FirePhil

I think you have way too much free time.

I got bored on first line.

[waltypies]

I think if you are posting this crazy idea at 5am you are either :

a) Still stoned
b) Still drunk
c) Just kicked some random girl out after some mad sex session and your on a high
d) The same as c) but with a random guy (if your into that thing)
e) None of the above (you just have far too much time on your hands).

V Bookie event?

[Dice Man]

Originally Posted by waltypies

e) None of the above (you just have far too much time on your hands).

We have already established this.

[Dice Man]

OK right here's what I've done so far. This is the deck. Or you could see it as 5 decks played at once.

Charles

---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—


Edward

---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—


George

---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—

Henry

---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—

Richard

---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—
---A---2---3---4---5---6---7—

The hands:

They can be expressed in a logical form. The capital letter preceding a bracket represents the heritage of the card (which king it is). The lower case letters in the middle represent the values of the card. (a,b,c,d,e) represents a straight. (v,w,x,y,z) represents 5 random values. The lower case letter after the bracket represents the suit.

So the best hand is a Royal Straight Flush: this one is a Henry straight flush in hearts.

H(a,b,c,d,e)h

Royal Flush:

H(v,w,x,y,z)h

The next best hand is a Royal Straight. The examples will always be in henry and hearts to simplify.

H(a,b,c,d,e)

Next is Straight Flush.

(a,b,c,d,e)h

Full House: King Trips Double Full

H(a,a,a) & H(b,b)* [Note the pair can be in a different heritage, or can be the same value as the trips)

5 of a kind

(a,a,a,a,a)

FH: King trips full of pair

H(a,a,a) & (b,b)

FH: King trips full of kings

H(a,a,a) & H(x,y)*

4 of a kind:

(a,a,a,a)

5 kings:

H(v,w,x,y,z)

King trips:

H(a,a,a)

4 kings

H(w,x,y,z)

Flush:

(v,w,x,y,z)h

Straight:

(a,b,c,d,e)

Royal:

C(w) & E(v) & G(x) & H(y) & R(z)

FH: trips full of king pair.

(a,a,a) & H(b,b)

FH: trips full of pair (standard FH)

(a,a,a) & (b,b)

FH: trips full of kings

(a,a,a) & H(x,y)

3 of a kind

(a,a,a)

2 Pair: king pair and king pair

H(a,a) & H(b,b)*

2 Pair: king pair and pair

H(a,a) & (b,b)

FH: 3 kings full of king pair

H(x,y,z) & H(a,a)*

2 Pair: King pair and kings

H(a,a) & H(x,y)*

King Pair:

H(a,a)

2 Pair: Pair and pair

(a,a) & (b,b)

FH: 3 kings full of pair

H(x,y,z) & (b,b)

2 Pair: Pair and kings

(a,a) & H(x,y)

FH: 3 kings double full

H(v,w,x) & C (y,z)

2 Pair: kings and kings

H(w,v) & C(x,y)

Pair:

(a,a)

Kings

H(x,y)

High Card



So anyway, I have worked out the probabilities of most of these hands. Except I seem to be unable to work out the straights properly. With only 7 cards it seems that whatever your first card, any second card will enable the possibility of a straight, but depending on what the second card is this changes the probability of getting a straight overall. So if you have (A,2) the chances of a straight are higher than (A,4) but I haven't worked out how to calculate it properly.
I also haven't worked out the difference between FH Trip kings double full and FH Trip kings full of kings, and also at the other end, FH pairs full of king pairs vs. FH pairs full of kings. There's probably some significant differences in there that may affect the hierarchy.
Also the hands at the bottom involving full houses, trips and pairs, I mostly haven't worked out but just guessed where they go.

Man I'm starting to lose interest in this. What a waste of time.

[Raiser]

WTF!!

Planet La La....