Difference between learning and being told what to do

[saul9987]

Before I begin, this is posted here because it is mainly applicable to the posts one sees in the Beginners Forum.

OK, I have been thinking about this for some time now. This first came to my attention in someone's blog here; I think it was Lukie's. It was a discussion on why you don't see the top notch players posting much in forums because they either know everything or want to figure out ideas for themselves. It's something along those lines, anyways here it goes, this could be somewhat controversial due to recent events however I think this is an important concept:

Sometimes you just have to figure things out for yourself

It's pretty simple, but for the most part at this forum I do not see this happening. I’m not criticizing anyone. I especially do not want the veteran posters who answer every single noob question to feel attacked by this. However, at what point do we stop getting fed the answers and actually go out and find them ourselves?

Sure, there are some extremely complex situations which elicit great debates. However, the countless endless stream of repetitiveness is starting to become somewhat ridiculous. I hope some of the newer members of FTR catch this and take the advice:

You will become hugely more successful at poker if you take the initiative to teach yourself

Until you sit down, analyze a hand, a line, a tournament, an anything, you will not fully understand the complex concepts of the game. It is just that simple. Having one of the veteran players tell you why you should have folded KJ to a push or why opening an Ace on the button is automatic will never make you a great poker player. You yourself need to look at this situation and determine WHY a certain play is the RIGHT play. Until you do this you will never truly improve at poker. Poker is not a buddy system, FTR is a great place to bounce ideas around but should not a place for holding your hand when you walk across the street.

What the beginners/strugglers need to realize is that poker is a game where you get what you put into it. If you put some hard work, time, and effort into your game, it will improve. If you come in here, ask questions you could have answered yourself, get a cookie-cutter answer, and remain stagnant in your abilities you only have yourself to blame.

I would like to see this happen more often:

1. A beginner has a question, he/she wants to post it here/in NL strats/in SNG's/etc...
2. Before the beginner hits the 'submit' button he/she actually goes and researches the topic. Wether it be using our search engine, other forums, Poker Books, or any other article.
3. The beginner then answers his/her own question in their post.
4. Member then analyze this

I really see this as a much more constructive way to learn a concept. I know the "beginner" forum is here to be open to any questions and for us to provide the answers. However, I have to wonder:

How good of a service are we really providing?

Do veteran members just stating the same answer to the same question actually produce any true improvement? I think not. From now on I think this forum should take a more Socratic method.

Let's start answering questions with questions

[The Professor]

Interesting comments .

As a pro player I really don`t spend much time discussing or debating issues on any forums, but in general I agree with your comments.
To Sum up ;
"Poker is not black and white , it`s not a case of one size fits all, if it was then all you would have to do is read a couple of books and hey presto ...you`re an expert. Poker is about learning and then adapting the knowledge into your own game, there is no right or wrong in any given (poker) situation, but every player needs to learn the basic plays to use as a yardstick to see how far they will need to deviate from the norm for the play to be successful and more importantly...why"
Whenever I`m asked to give lessons I don`t tell a player to play this hand or that hand in a certain way I just offer various views as to how the hand may be played and then let the individual work out what option would best suit that particular situation and once again...why.
Once you understand the "Why" part you`re on the way to improving your poker play.

[waltypies]

Let's start answering questions with questions

Are you Spam?

Is Spam just spam of the mind?

Why is spam, spam?

Lets answer more questions with spam

[jackson_us5]

I am a beginning player myself and I agree with you in that we (us beginners) are better off in the long run learning concepts for ourselves and it will make us better players.

However, for me anyway, I study some of my hands and I genuinely don't know if it was the right play or not and whether I should have folded or not/raised or not/been in the hand at all. This is why I post my hands so that I can be guided by people like you and the other more experienced players into making the right decisions. I don't want to be another fish losing all my money due to bad plays when I can get some help/guidance from better players. Oh by the way I some time take help from Online Poker Calculators from Poker Pro labs, I recently found on internet, while playing online poker. I like your post and will be interested to see what some of the other new players think and how the "veteran" players feel about helping new members with what are widely seen as "basic" decisons/concepts.