Playing middle pair in early-mid position

**Matty H** · 27th December 2006, 12:20 AM

Looseish table

***** Hand 493931115 *****
400.00/800.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 27 December 2006 00:14:50
$4000 Guaranteed (Real /Tournament )
Seat 1: Kilkenny (16806.00)
Seat 2: gone06 (7778.00)
Seat 3: Tony Tower (11630.00)
Seat 4: Figurao (13897.00)
Seat 5: warrant3 (43002.00)
Seat 6: starsky33 (6535.00)
Seat 7: David16 (13180.00)
Seat 8: SPEZIA1906 (4011.00)
Seat 9: MattyH (29328.00)
Seat 10: Kenguru55 (8611.00)
Tony Tower post SB 400.00
Figurao post BB 800.00
** Deal **
Kilkenny [N/A, N/A]
gone06 [N/A, N/A]
Tony Tower [N/A, N/A]
Figurao [N/A, N/A]
warrant3 [N/A, N/A]
starsky33 [N/A, N/A]
David16 [N/A, N/A]
SPEZIA1906 [N/A, N/A]
MattyH [8c, 8s]
Kenguru55 [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
warrant3 Fold
starsky33 Fold
David16 Call 800.00
SPEZIA1906 Fold
MattyH Call 800.00

The rest of the hand is irelevant really. I got to see to the turn, didn't hit my set and there were 3 overcards

Is calling the right option to take here? Or should I be raising? Or even folding? If I raise here on this table I'm sure i'm gonna get a couple of callers

**Matty H** · 27th December 2006, 12:08 PM

No I don't think folding's an option either. It's the raise/call thing. If I raise I am pretty sure I'm gonna get a few callers and if overcards come out, which they probably will, then I don't know where I am but have to assume I'm beat. I can't call a bet postflop with overcards out adn if I bet first and am raised, or someone calls, then equally I'm probably beat so it's a waste of chips. What are the chances of hitting a set postflop? 10%? less? Calling is probably right here with my stack. I find these hands awkward to play though, mainly because I am reluctant to commit chips, albeit a small amount, in that position where I could be reraised and even if I'm not I'm still gonna need to get lucky to make trips

**Thor2007** · 27th December 2006, 09:09 PM

I'm always looking to get as few chips into a pot with a small/middle pair as possible before the flop. So I'm flat calling a 3-5xBB raise and folding if there's a raise and a re-raise.

**Matty H** · 28th December 2006, 11:11 AM

Similar situation last night in the 4k. I picked up pocket 7s UTG+2. Blinds are 300/600 and I have a 10k stack on a full table. It's the usual relatively loose/shite standard and a raise will probably see at least one caller and probably the blinds call as they see it as value....

Anyway, I folded. Walty thought I should have raised or at least called. He may be right? Still looking for some advice on these hands as I seem to get them regularly. I didn't want to raise and commit a quarter+ of my stack which is what I would have had to have done to have much chance of getting one player max in the pot, and are the blinds that worth stealing? If overcards come ont he flop, I have to act first, do I make a continuation bet knowing full well if I'm raised or called I'm probably dead in the hand?

**Thor2007** · 28th December 2006, 11:20 AM

Why not attempt a limp?

I watched an interview with Barry Greenstein and his advice was to get to the flop was cheaply as possible with small / mid pairs due to the high chance of overcards. At the end of the day, you are only gonna be confident with pocket 7's if you get an extremely low flop or you hit a set, so dont commit any large % of your stack before then.

Opposite goes for the big pairs, you need to raise enough to force these marginal pairs and suited connectors out of the pot preflop.

**Matty H** · 28th December 2006, 11:23 AM

I agree with what you're saying but probably something like 90% (don't have actual statistics) had been raised preflop. I'm not sure I can call a raise if I limp there out of position? I'm on 10k, blinds are 300/600

**Thor2007** · 28th December 2006, 11:41 AM

Suppose its pretty difficult to see a cheap flop on a full 10 man table, I'm too used to 5 man tables, and even if there is a raise then it's likely to only be to 3xBB which is an easy call to try and catch a monster flop.

Playing on fulltilt for a month has made me more aggressive when I came back to poker.co.uk, none of this 3xBB raise, its now 5xBB and if there's a raise before me then I'd raise him 4x his initial raise. Too many suckers playing pocket ducks and nailing my big slicks.

**Matty H** · 28th December 2006, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Matty H

Similar situation last night in the 4k. I picked up pocket 7s UTG+2. Blinds are 300/600 and I have a 10k stack on a full table. It's the usual relatively loose/shite standard and a raise will probably see at least one caller and probably the blinds call as they see it as value....

Anyway, I folded. Walty thought I should have raised or at least called. He may be right? Still looking for some advice on these hands as I seem to get them regularly. I didn't want to raise and commit a quarter+ of my stack which is what I would have had to have done to have much chance of getting one player max in the pot, and are the blinds that worth stealing? If overcards come ont he flop, I have to act first, do I make a continuation bet knowing full well if I'm raised or called I'm probably dead in the hand?

Any more thoughts?

**Prowler** · 28th December 2006, 07:43 PM

10 man table, cheap flop, no set no bet, fold to big bet with overcards showing

**Matty H** · 28th December 2006, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Prowler

10 man table, cheap flop, no set no bet, fold to big bet with overcards showing

Say I'm reraised to 1200 preflop? In fact most hands were reraised more than that. There were two lunatics on teh table who kept going allin for around 9k regularly. Needless to say they both got stung in the end, although not by me. This was my main reason for folding