All in with QQ

[Wuddle]

To me that's a huge overbet trying to look weak.

I don't think a tight player would risk $80 to pick $5 up, especially when your raise is bigger than the standard raise.

There's also the fact that by the way you play he's somehow in his mind decided that there's no way you have aces and thus there's no way you can call that bet.

$75 is too much to risk though, so i fold.

[jjh]

Interesting points, I guess this depends a lot on how the game is going and who you are up against.

Trustme, $5 raise is the equivalant of 10 BB which is a big inital raise- you wanna take the pot with QQ there and then I suppose.

[Dice Man]

Interesting points, I guess this depends a lot on how the game is going and who you are up against.

Trustme, $5 raise is the equivalant of 10 BB which is a big inital raise- you wanna take the pot with QQ there and then I suppose.

If you expect your opponent to fold then you should be making this 10x raise with any old crap you're given. You want somebody to call when you have QQ. I see a lot of people raise x10 like this with small and middle pocket pairs because they know that if they limp or bet small they won't know how to play it post-flop. Playing pocket pairs post-flop is one of the hardest parts of poker, as when you miss your set you're either a long way ahead or a long way behind your opponent, and it's hard to know which one, even when you have an overpair, as we've seen in a few threads on the forum.

With QQ you want people to call with any pair 22-JJ, and any good ace or king like AQ-AT and KQ-KJ, as you have good odds against all these hands. The point of raising is to get rid of the players with K2 and A5 who limp in from the blinds and ruin your party. You have to measure it just right so you only get one caller. If someone has min-raised under the gun it's worth re-raising them to isolate it but I wouldn't bet x10 straight away because players don't have any incentive to put their chips in to play against you. You have to offer them some odds but not the right odds.

[trustme]

Trustme, $5 raise is the equivalant of 10 BB which is a big inital raise- you wanna take the pot with QQ there and then I suppose.

Ok, little confused by this strategy, if you raise 10x bb preflop with queens to pick up 75c and a very tight aggressive player moves all in over the top, then in this situation you have to fold.

If im up against a player who raises this much everytime they have a really big hand my calling range preflop is going to be massive, looking to flop two pair or a straight or flush draw, knowing that if i miss they will win an ok pot, if i hit they will lose a massive pot.

heres a couple of examples:
***** Hand 468081441 *****
0.25/0.50 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 23 November 2006 03:34:28
Table TH 591 (Real /Cash Game )
Seat 1: AJanJA (40.5
Seat 2: Thor2006 (108.95)
Seat 3: PROWLER666 (41.30)
Seat 4: trust_me (123.25)
Seat 5: zxcvbnm1 (9.75)
Thor2006 post SB 0.25
PROWLER666 post BB 0.50
** Deal **
AJanJA [N/A, N/A]
Thor2006 [N/A, N/A]
PROWLER666 [N/A, N/A]
trust_me [3c, 5c]
zxcvbnm1 [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
trust_me Call 0.50
zxcvbnm1 Fold
AJanJA Raise to 2.50
Thor2006 Fold
PROWLER666 Fold
trust_me Call 2.50
*** Flop(Board): *** : [Jh, 4d, 7c]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
trust_me Check
AJanJA Bet 1.50
trust_me Call 1.50
*** Turn(Board): *** : [Jh, 4d, 7c, 6c]
*** Bet Round 3 ***
trust_me Check
AJanJA Bet 5.00
trust_me Raise to 15.00
AJanJA All-in 36.58
trust_me Call 36.58
*** River(Board): *** : [Jh, 4d, 7c, 6c, 4c]
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 3.00 Total Pot: 78.91
AJanJA [Ah, Ac] Two pair aces and fours Win :0.00
trust_me [3c, 5c] Straight flush Win :78.91
__________________________________________________ _____
*** Hand 469629557 *****
0.25/0.50 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 25 November 2006 03:01:33
Table TH 939 (Real /Cash Game )
Seat 1: funzo (10.00)
Seat 2: klavuz (43.50)
Seat 3: PROWLER666 (24.19)
Seat 4: trust_me (44.25)
Seat 5: Thor2006 (84.74)
PROWLER666 post SB 0.25
trust_me post BB 0.50
** Deal **
funzo [N/A, N/A]
klavuz [N/A, N/A]
PROWLER666 [N/A, N/A]
trust_me [9c, 5c]
Thor2006 [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
Thor2006 Fold
funzo Fold
klavuz Raise to 2.00
PROWLER666 Fold
trust_me Call 2.00
*** Flop(Board): *** : [5h, 5s, 4s]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
trust_me Bet 2.00
klavuz Raise to 6.50
trust_me Call 6.50
*** Turn(Board): *** : [5h, 5s, 4s, 7h]
*** Bet Round 3 ***
trust_me Check
klavuz Bet 12.50
trust_me Raise to 32.50
klavuz Call 32.50
*** River(Board): *** : [5h, 5s, 4s, 7h, 4d]
*** Bet Round 4 ***
trust_me Bet 2.00
klavuz Call 2.00
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 3.00 Total Pot: 83.25
klavuz KK:0.00
trust_me [9c, 5c] Full house Win :83.25

[Dice Man]

In the last hand what does that KK mean at the end? Does he have KK or does he muck? Cos it's presented differently to the last hand where he has AA.

[trustme]

he had KK, it was shown but for some reason the hand history didnt record it.

Heres an example of the same play...but it goes tits up at the river

***** Hand 469614173 *****
0.25/0.50 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 25 November 2006 02:12:41
Table TH 939 (Real /Cash Game )
Seat 1: evilfu (86.63)
Seat 2: jude2 (113.22)
Seat 3: PROWLER666 (40.80)
Seat 4: trust_me (37.55)
Seat 5: Thor2006 (64.69)
trust_me post SB 0.25
Thor2006 post BB 0.50
** Deal **
evilfu [N/A, N/A]
jude2 [N/A, N/A]
PROWLER666 [N/A, N/A]
trust_me [10c, 8d]
Thor2006 [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
evilfu Raise to 2.00
jude2 Fold
PROWLER666 Fold
trust_me Call 2.00
Thor2006 Fold
*** Flop(Board): *** : [Qd, 8c, 8h]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
trust_me Bet 2.50
evilfu Raise to 6.50
trust_me Call 6.50
*** Turn(Board): *** : [Qd, 8c, 8h, 2h]
*** Bet Round 3 ***
trust_me Check
evilfu Bet 7.50
trust_me Raise to 18.00
evilfu Raise to 28.50
trust_me All-in 29.05
evilfu Call 29.05
*** River(Board): *** : [Qd, 8c, 8h, 2h, Qs]
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 3.00 Total Pot: 72.60
evilfu [Qc, Jh] Full house Win :72.60
trust_me [10c, 8d] Full house Win :0.00

[jjh]

If im up against a player who raises this much everytime they have a really big hand my calling range preflop is going to be massive, looking to flop two pair or a straight or flush draw, knowing that if i miss they will win an ok pot, if i hit they will lose a massive pot.

I see your point- I always bet a flush draw for example because the rewards for hitting are massive. I suppose that is the same kind of thing.

But if you knew I raised with top pairs pre flop then what you've just said doesn't really make sense. You're calling 10 times the BB with really poor odds 'hoping' to hit. That's practically saying call with anything because if you hit then you'll win a big pot. Maybe I read it wrong?

[Prowler]

dont listen to ragboy!!! hes nothing but a menace, i cant stand it when he calls my big raise with AK with nothing more than 5 high and the board flops low and i gotta give it up, or you've pushed $100 into the pot and been called all the way only for a crappy 6 to land on the river and get reraised all in by his poxy river straight, from rags to riches they say!!

basicly the style of play he's advocating is a valid approach providing your bankrolled well and not for the inexperienced or faint hearted, you gotta be prepared to donk off a lot to create a loose image and also expect to miss a lot of draws, on the plus side you win some mega pots which will balance out your losses and you have a far bigger scope for stealing with well timed bluffs, like i stated earlier theres nothing worse than holding a strong hand and being reraised all in on the river by someone who could be holding any 2 cards, possibly the toughest decision in poker!!!

oh and the other good thing about that style is you get called a fish for the first couple of hours until players at the table suddenly realise they been duped by someone that knows exactly what they are doing whilst managing to make it look "lucky", naturally by then its too late for them to do much about it except learn that not every fish is a minnow!!

[jjh]

dont listen to ragboy!!! hes nothing but a menace, i cant stand it when he calls my big raise with AK with nothing more than 5 high and the board flops low and i gotta give it up, or you've pushed $100 into the pot and been called all the way only for a crappy 6 to land on the river and get reraised all in by his poxy river straight, from rags to riches they say!!

basicly the style of play he's advocating is a valid approach providing your bankrolled well and not for the inexperienced or faint hearted, you gotta be prepared to donk off a lot to create a loose image and also expect to miss a lot of draws, on the plus side you win some mega pots which will balance out your losses and you have a far bigger scope for stealing with well timed bluffs, like i stated earlier theres nothing worse than holding a strong hand and being reraised all in on the river by someone who could be holding any 2 cards, possibly the toughest decision in poker!!!

oh and the other good thing about that style is you get called a fish for the first couple of hours until players at the table suddenly realise they been duped by someone that knows exactly what they are doing whilst managing to make it look "lucky", naturally by then its too late for them to do much about it except learn that not every fish is a minnow!!

LOL, I can see how it is a good way to win some HUGE pots. I've been trying to implement it into my game, especially the flush draws- create big pots and by the time the river comes, if you hit and bet, they're likely to call because they think you had a hand already. You get called a fish but so what if you're winning!

I think that style is effective when done right because it isn't conventional and therefore hard to read and play against!

That's one of the problems with raising pre flop and getting someone who will call with low cards. I mean, if you raise with AK and the flop shows a K, they're pretty much certain you've got a pair of kings. If that K is the only high card to come out then they've got a lot better read on the player who raised pre flop. So if they hit two pair, they can just call your bets and then raise big on the river, pretty confident they've got you beat. Not many people like to lay down Top pair when they hold AK either!