The Value of postion

[PokerWoody]

So, why do I keep posting my stats on here? I dunno, I guess I find it interesting so assume someone else will!

THIS is why I play so many hands from the button...



Comments and observations welcomed. (Yes, I'm too loose from the SB!)

[Thor2007]

Playing borderline hands from the small blind is a problem for so many players.

I have no hesitation in folding in this position but constantly here Diceman and co stating that I should be playing as it's only a small amount to see a flop, with good pot odds. You're still going to get into trouble a lot of times playing from this position, particularly with ace rags when the flop brings an ace. In that situation you are going to either bet out or check/call and you don't really have any idea where you are in the hand.

Think Prowler used tracker and it showed this is where he was losing most of his cash.

Let this be a lesson to all!

Woody, are you losing so much from that BB because you defend it viciously?

[PokerWoody]

Woody, are you losing so much from that BB because you defend it viciously?

No. The blinds are so small in NL holdem that there is no reason to defend the blinds. EVERYONE loses money from the blinds it's as simple as that. There is simply too much money being posted to be able to show a profit from either position.

27% from the SB is still too much though I think.

[Highgate]

Playing borderline hands from the small blind is a problem for so many players.

I'm just landing here and definitely finding a place where shared experiences like you help me to improve my own poker hands.

Much appreciated indeed

[ItsComeToThis]

No. The blinds are so small in NL holdem that there is no reason to defend the blinds. EVERYONE loses money from the blinds it's as simple as that. There is simply too much money being posted to be able to show a profit from either position.

27% from the SB is still too much though I think.

It's not possible for 'everyone' to lose and that seems a poor defense. And I dont agree with the statement "There is simply too much money being posted to be able to show a profit from either position" just because it doesnt seem logical. I certainly know where every penny Im involved with goes and even if 'everyone' where loosing money, it'd be of no comfort to me when I lost.

Caring too little about things you deem to be 'small' I think can be a major pit-fall.

[Dice Man]

Okay to clarify, it says you lose in the blinds because you have to lose right? Those losses incorporate the blind that the system is taking off you aren't they? I don;t see any reason to be losing money in the blinds otherwise.

As for my small-blind calling antics, I think it's probably a losing strategy in the games I play, mostly low stakes online. I think it's a good strategy in better quality games. Basically say you're an observer trying to figure out what hands people are playing, a guy limps under the gun, a guy limps in middle position, little blind calls and big blind checks, the observer can put the utg guy and the middle position guy on a range of hands supposing they are a rational agent. They cannot put the little and big blinds on any hand, apart from things like "not AA-99,AK-J" etcetera. There's still loads of hands you can have and so many boards you can represent there I think it's worthwhile. That is, it's worthwhile when your opponents actually work out your range. When they're stupid Turks sitting behind a computer it won't pay off so much.

And Thor, I've seen you fold small blinds in O8B when there's virtually no chance of the big blind raising, and in playmoney too where the average player will call all in with top pair post-flop. And in limit of any game I'd say it's always worth it. Same with the big blind against a min-raise. I'm calling now I'll work out what they have later.

[PokerWoody]

It's not possible for 'everyone' to lose and that seems a poor defense. And I dont agree with the statement "There is simply too much money being posted to be able to show a profit from either position" just because it doesnt seem logical. I certainly know where every penny Im involved with goes and even if 'everyone' where loosing money, it'd be of no comfort to me when I lost.

Caring too little about things you deem to be 'small' I think can be a major pit-fall.

It is simply the truth, or at least I don't know any other winning players who win from the blinds, - EVERYONE loses from the blinds. If I filter my results to only include hands where I have VP$IP then I am winning money from the blinds. However, even with this I can not withstand the huge cost of posting 1.5bb's every 6 hands.

It is also worth noting that my Attempt To Steal blinds is 35%. This 'dead' money IS valuble just not worth protecting.

I'd be curious to see your results if you belive other wise. Can you post them? ...or PM me if you'd prefer not to put them up on here.

Here's another interesting stat. Check out how much rake I have payed over the last 40k hands (although i'm not sure how it calculates this)...

[Thor2007]

And Thor, I've seen you fold small blinds in O8B when there's virtually no chance of the big blind raising, and in playmoney too where the average player will call all in with top pair post-flop. And in limit of any game I'd say it's always worth it. Same with the big blind against a min-raise. I'm calling now I'll work out what they have later.

My O8 game is amateurish to say the least, but folding the small blind aint a problem when you have shite cards. I would be looking to hit a perfect flop to have any chance in either pot, and it's simply a losing strategy to play just because u have a blind invested. That's what I think anyway.

On occassions I will play crap cards from the BB when the button has raised as the chances of a steal are fairly high and to try and cut down the amount of times that the button will do this, thus making it a good long term strategy if the same player stayed at the table for a while.

[PokerWoody]

On occassions I will play crap cards from the BB when the button has raised as the chances of a steal are fairly high and to try and cut down the amount of times that the button will do this, thus making it a good long term strategy if the same player stayed at the table for a while.

When you say 'play' I assume you mean 'reraise'? Calling would be bad I think.

I totally agree with you that people play to many hands from the blinds. In a way that was kind of the point of this thread. I just wanted to illustrate just how important postion is in NLHE.

[dancoles]

It is simply the truth, or at least I don't know any
Here's another interesting stat. Check out how much rake I have payed over the last 40k hands (although i'm not sure how it calculates this)...

Do you get any rakeback ?