What do we do here?

[Thor2007]

Not long sat down, the guy seems pretty solid and has had a nice stack sitting from long before I arrived. However, he has recently lost a big pot to Bill$. He hasn't ever raised this much preflop since I sat down...

Hand #450901020 at table: Table TH 358
Started: Tue Oct 31 18:46:12 2006

alexross is at seat 1 with 70.53
Thor2006 is at seat 2 with 118.30
arslan11 is at seat 3 with 191.64
PayMyBill$ is at seat 4 with 429.33
liadmo is at seat 5 with 31.70

arslan11 posts the large blind 1.00
Thor2006 posts the small blind 0.50

Thor2006: Qs, Qc
arslan11: --, --
PayMyBill$: --, --
liadmo: --, --
alexross: --, --

Pre-flop:

PayMyBill$: Fold
liadmo: Call 1.00
alexross: Fold
Thor2006: Raise 3.00
arslan11: Raise 12.00
liadmo: Fold
Thor2006: Call 12.00

Flop (Board: Jc, 4d, 3d):

Thor2006: Check
arslan11: Bet 20.00
Thor: ?

Alexross and myself has a disagreement about my move from here, but I stick by it.

[POB666]

I dont think i would of checked that flop, i would of bet say $17 to see where i was, but u got to see where you wer for free, so fair enough, id say probably behind. You say the guys solid so i would respect his raise even if he has just lost a large pot, the solid players i know tend to tighten up after a big loss rather than the aggressive players i know that usually end up tilting. I would maybe put him on JJ, contradicting my last sentace he may of tried to scare you off pre flop and got lucky, he probably has KK,AA or even the same hand as you. AKd aint impossible either. I would generally fold, this one of them situations that would be better live as additional information can be gathered. I hate QQ by the way so i may biased lol

[Thor2007]

I don't hate QQ, but I also don't love it either. It's a good starting hand but gets screwed over so many times by those rag kings and aces, hence only the standard pre-flop raise with it.

I'd much rather do the calling than the preflop raising with it.

I didn't bet the flop for a reason. As soon as it came down I knew where I was. Betting the flop is an option to gather information if you are unsure, but I think my bet range of $12-$15 would be a waste here.

[Wuddle]

You can't fold here really.. what's the point of calling with queens if you fold to a flop that is jack high, if you thought you were against aces or kings you should've folded pre flop.

I see no value in calling here.. so it's pretty close decision between a raise and a fold depending on whether or not you think he missed his AK/AQ and is putting a continuation bet in.

[POB666]

Well its not hate it just frustrates sooooooooo often

[PokerWoody]

Tough spot. Really need to know more about his three betting range here, this is very player dependant.

Saying that, I really don't hate check fold here. Yes, it feels a bit weak but being OOP makes everything a lot more complicated. It's one of those situations where you're not going to get him to make a big mistake, but YOU can make a big mistake.

Your preflop bet is too small though, make it at least $5 although more is fine too. If you don't like QQ what hands do you like??

We're behind AA, KK and now JJ. Ahead of AK, does he raise AQ here or worse here? Smaller pocket pairs perhaps? I'm too drunk and high to answer this one right now!

At the time, what did you feel his three betting range might be?

[Beat83]

As it is folding is fine, but I would have bet the flop here. He still has the lead, and a lot of players would bet a lot of hands there after a check. A bet gives you more info imo. I also agree with raising more pf.

[stretch]

I`d have to take the risk here, my guess would be AJ or KJ. Maybe if i knew a bit more about the players style i would play it different.

So what did he have? or didnt u take it that far??

[waltypies]

Again you really need more info on the player.

I think folding is actually your best option and wait for a better time to milk the guy.

[PokerWoody]

Okay, thinking about it when sober I don’t like the idea of folding at all.

c/c the flop, check the turn and see what happens. If we think his reraising range is KK, AA and AK then we are still in reasonable shape . If he’s a little on tilt because of the pot he’s just lost it’s very probable that it’s much bigger than this and we can include, AQ, AJ and smaller pairs than our Queens.