A couple of PL Omaha Hi/Lo hands

[FirePhil]

I haven't played a whole lot of Omaha but the overall standard of play seems way worse than holdem. A typical table seems to consist of 2 good players, 5 players who have a vague idea how to play but aren't very good and 2 complete idiots who just give money away.

Hand 1:

$1/$2 PL Omaha Hi/Lo, 10 handed. I have ~$200, good player on my immediate right has ~$400.

In the SB I'm dealt 45QK and there's 3 limpers to me, I call and the BB checks. The flop comes J 3 6 rainbow, checked round to the button who bets $6 into the $10 pot, I call and everyone else folds. The turn is a 10 and I lead out for $14 into the $22 pot and the button calls. The river is a 7 and I lead out for $24 and the button raises to $96. Pot is $170, it's $72 to you and you have just over $150 left behind, what's your play?

Hand 2:

In the BB with ~$200 and I'm dealt AQT2, 5 limpers to me and I make it $10 and get 3 callers. Flop comes T 9 6 with two spades. Checked round to the button who has ~$50 behind and he min bets, everyone calls. The turn is an offsuit 2 and the SB (~$400, good player from hand 1) leads out for $18 into the $52 pot, what's your play?

You can probably guess the end result of hand one from the stack sizes in hand two, but try not to let it affect your thinking.

[PokerWoody]

Good to see you posting again. I was starting to wonder if something sinister had happened to you!

I’ll give this a go but really DO NOT play O8 and only occasionally play High. So take what I say with as much salt as you have to hand. I have actually played hi lo before but stopped because I was shit at it and still had lots to learn in my other games.

Hand 1:

$1/$2 PL Omaha Hi/Lo, 10 handed. I have ~$200, good player on my immediate right has ~$400.

In the SB I'm dealt 45QK and there's 3 limpers to me, I call and the BB checks. The flop comes J 3 6 rainbow, checked round to the button who bets $6 into the $10 pot, I call and everyone else folds. The turn is a 10 and I lead out for $14 into the $22 pot and the button calls. The river is a 7 and I lead out for $24 and the button raises to $96. Pot is $170, it's $72 to you and you have just over $150 left behind, what's your play?

For me it’s between calling and folding. I think you have to assume that he has a low hand, and his low hand is better than yours. In Omaha I’m always a bit reluctant of non nut straights like this. The fact that it’s hi lo possibly makes 89 a little less likely but this is an unraised pot and as you say people will play with all sorts of nonsense. I think maybe he has something like A45X and you lose the lo pot and split the high pot. The question is what did you mean to accomplish with your $24 bet? It looks like you want a cheep showdown and I think I’m inclined to agree, so I’d probably fold here.

Hand 2:

In the BB with ~$200 and I'm dealt AQT2, 5 limpers to me and I make it $10 and get 3 callers. Flop comes T 9 6 with two spades. Checked round to the button who has ~$50 behind and he min bets, everyone calls. The turn is an offsuit 2 and the SB (~$400, good player from hand 1) leads out for $18 into the $52 pot, what's your play?

I’d fold to his bet, I think it unlikely he is bluffing outright into a multiway pot like this. There has been a fair amount of weakness shown but you also have some live players behind you. You can’t make a low hand but he probably can so any A,3,4,5,7,8 means you can only win half the pot. As for the high pot you really don’t have too much right now, even a perfect T on the river could be trouble. Say the turn is high card how much are you willing to call on the river with your two pair?

[FirePhil]

Good to see you posting again. I was starting to wonder if something sinister had happened to you!

Work's been pretty hectic so haven't had a lot of time, should quieten down a lot after next week.

For me it’s between calling and folding. I think you have to assume that he has a low hand, and his low hand is better than yours. In Omaha I’m always a bit reluctant of non nut straights like this. The fact that it’s hi lo possibly makes 89 a little less likely but this is an unraised pot and as you say people will play with all sorts of nonsense. I think maybe he has something like A45X and you lose the lo pot and split the high pot. The question is what did you mean to accomplish with your $24 bet? It looks like you want a cheep showdown and I think I’m inclined to agree, so I’d probably fold here.

The bet on the end was a blocking bet more than anything, I don't want the nut low jamming and stealing half the pot. Once he raised I know I'm not going to win the whole pot and I'm sure he has the nuts one way or the other and possibly both. I'm getting 2.36:1 so I need to win 30% or more of the pot on average for calling to be +EV and I think I win half often enough that this is the case. 2nd nut hands in Omaha are horrible though.

I’d fold to his bet, I think it unlikely he is bluffing outright into a multiway pot like this. There has been a fair amount of weakness shown but you also have some live players behind you. You can’t make a low hand but he probably can so any A,3,4,5,7,8 means you can only win half the pot. As for the high pot you really don’t have too much right now, even a perfect T on the river could be trouble. Say the turn is high card how much are you willing to call on the river with your two pair?

I agree. Two pair is a very dangerous hand to play in Omaha, especially in a multiway pot with players to act behind you. If I was closing the action with position I think it's probably closer but still a fold IMO. A lot of holdem players overvalue their high hands in Omaha, it's one of the main reasons I have made money at it. I'm not particularly good but there's plenty players who are particularly bad.

[PokerWoody]

I'm getting 2.36:1 so I need to win 30% or more of the pot on average for calling to be +EV and I think I win half often enough that this is the case. 2nd nut hands in Omaha are horrible though.

Do you think he raises here with no high hand? Hmm, I think it might be close but on average I think you win less than 30% of the pot. He evidently liked that 7 and it does complete a few high hands as well as make a low.

Besides, as you put out a block bet I like a fold. His bet looks like a value raise but I don't really know enough about the game and the 'standard plays' to draw any conclusions. For instance, its it always worth reraising with the NUT half when HU? You run the risk of walking away with just a quarter of the pot but I guess that is compensated by the times your opponent folds and you take all that lovely dead money in the pot?

[FirePhil]

Do you think he raises here with no high hand? Hmm, I think it might be close but on average I think you win less than 30% of the pot. He evidently liked that 7 and it does complete a few high hands as well as make a low.

It may well be almost neutral EV, and it's almost always better to call in that situation IMO. I don't think calling or folding are particularly wrong.

Besides, as you put out a block bet I like a fold. His bet looks like a value raise but I don't really know enough about the game and the 'standard plays' to draw any conclusions. For instance, its it always worth reraising with the NUT half when HU? You run the risk of walking away with just a quarter of the pot but I guess that is compensated by the times your opponent folds and you take all that lovely dead money in the pot?

I wouldn't say always, but in this hand it looks like I'm going high so raising is probably a good play.

Anyway, hand 1 I called and he showed A27J for the nut low and two-pair and we split the pot. I think this is probably an automatic raise on the end.

Hand 2 I folded and the button pushed with KQJxTx, the SB called with AA78 and scooped it when the button missed their draw.