your opinions on this hand?

[barbarian]

Hand #214902763 at table: Texas Holdem
Started: Fri Feb 24 00:23:26 2006

PritAa1 is at seat 1 with 3774.00
Mala is at seat 2 with 2735.00
Ravenous is at seat 3 with 1539.00
Capta is at seat 4 with 1930.00
SprobujSam is at seat 5 with 4122.00
Barbarian2 is at seat 6 with 4650.00
jt2002 is at seat 7 with 645.00
Consuelo1 is at seat 8 with 2395.00
goldenboy6 is at seat 9 with 5150.00
mancho822 is at seat 10 with 920.00

Ravenous posts the large blind 150.00
Mala posts the small blind 75.00

Mala: --, --
Ravenous: --, --
Capta: --, --
SprobujSam: --, --
Barbarian2: 9d, 9c
jt2002: --, --
Consuelo1: --, --
goldenboy6: --, --
mancho822: --, --
PritAa1: --, --

Pre-flop:

Capta: Fold
SprobujSam: Fold
Barbarian2: Call 150.00
jt2002: All in
Consuelo1: Fold
goldenboy6: Fold
mancho822: Fold
PritAa1: Fold
Mala: Fold
Ravenous: Fold
Barbarian2: Call 645.00

Showdown:

Barbarian2 shows: 9d, 9c (a pair of Nines)
jt2002 shows: Jc, Ah (high card, Ace)

Flop (Board: Qs, 8d, As):


Turn (Board: Qs, 8d, As, 6s):


River (Board: Qs, 8d, As, 6s, 4s):

jt2002 shows: Jc, Ah (a pair of Aces)

Mainpot:
jt2002 wins the pot of 1515 with a pair of Aces

(0.00 rake were taken for this hand)

[Dice Man]

Easy call. People do that with small pairs as well, plus you were still ahead.

[barbarian]

yes, with the range i put him on i had an easy call. I'm kind of wondering what range people would put his guy on. I didn't have much more information about him but some of the all-in moves at the table had been a bit dodgy! (3-3 for example) This didnt affect my thought process too much though.

[Prowler]

what can ya say? you got a decent enough stack, the guy is low on chips i'm guessing from playing weak hands, hes pushed to steal, if you'd raised he would of done the same anyway, your ahead and he's hit a card, if your asking would i have done the same as you and call his all in.......depending what hands he's played earlier and his profile was anything but tight then probably yes but theres a lot to consider, if it was an mtt and he'd just joined your table and you had no read on him then i'd base my call on the players i already had reads on, if your on an already tight table are you gonna be able to recover lost chips? how easy was it to build your stack in the first place? how many ppl are left in? whats the average stack size?.......

you was ahead as it turned out but with 9-9 chances are your going up against 2 overcards possibly another pair, in an mtt its one of those marginal hands that depending on circumstance around you as well as in front of you makes the call a little harder or easier, a lot of people make the mistake of playing a marginal hand in an mtt that they dont really need to get involved in, in this case, you played the hand ok, was slightly ahead preflop and got outdrawn, it wasnt a massive call and hasnt cost you too many chips yet in the longer term thats 495 chips that could of been used on a better hand than 9-9, or another 2 orbits (20 hands) to wait for something better

point is....during n mtt you get faced with hands just like these at least 3 or 4 times and too many people evaluate the hand only and dont consider every option available to them, i've been chip leader on final tables and got involved in marginal hands i was sure i was winning and taken big dents which i now realise i didnt need to take, early in tourneys i've folded big hands i was in front with (see deep stacks thread) cos risking everything on a 50/50 just isnt worth it when theres a 65/35 just around the corner!!

[barbarian]

i hear you prowler, i have to say if i had the hand again i'd call again. It was early/middle in a $5 MTT. I (roughly) put him on a range, looked at the pot odds and called. I thought it most likely Ak to AJ, next smaller pair then 9s, next bigger pair than nines. This is only based general feel of the table/ how people usually play in these games, he had joined not long before and not played a hand yet. It turns out i wasnt wrong. As i say i'l call this every time and i'll be ahead in the long run (i believe). incidentally i ended up 25th out of 300 for a measly $10.50. Possibly the worst time to go out!

[Top Pair Ace Kicker]

No disrespect intended, as a lot of people, including me, put up hands for analysis, but as in this case, there is usually so much more involved that didnt happen as opposed to what actually did, that any advice given is fairly useless IMO.

I will explain.

Now I know it is very easy for me to say what I am about to say from the safety of not being at the table, with my chips on the line etc, but just what was your intention with a flat call of 150 from early position? You could argue that it only cost you less than 5% of your stack to see a flop, but what would you have done if the small stack had folded, but someone with a bigger stack than the guy who went all in had raised? or what about if someone else had called his raise? would you have still called? What range would you put the big stacks on?

What if he had flat called and 2 others had come in? You cant put all of them on a range of hands, so best to get as few people in as possible. A lot of tactics I read when I first started out playing poker said that if a hand is good enough to call with, then its good enough to raise with, now personally I don't actually follow this logic, certainly not all the time anyway, but I can understand it and thats what I would have done here.

How much would depend on my thought processes at the time, my read on the table, and just as important MY image at the table. Are you loose? so could be raising with junk? or are you tight and only raising with premium hands? Would a raise to about 600-1000 get respect or contempt?

If the small stack goes all in, so be it. If one of the big stacks calls, then unless another 9 hits the flop you will have probably have to outplay them to win the pot, but thats what poker is (mostly) about. Would an all low flop be good here? or what about three pictures? Do you bet? what do you do if you are raised or called?

Its the skill of flop playing rather than just going all-in or calling all ins pre flop that will in the long run determine if you win or lose, along with how the remaining cards fall of course.

Pre flop coin flips sometimes go your way, sometimes they dont. Yes in every tournament you win there will be a number of these, but there will be a lot more hands where decisions have to be made on flops and turns and rivers.

What you have posted is, as has been said before, an easy call. I think the range you are putting him on, in a $5.00 game (again no disrespect intended) is WAY too small. I would have him on A-anything. Two picture cards, two connectors like 8-9 etc etc in which case you are being asked to put in 495 into a pot of 1020, which is way above what you need to call and go heads up.

I just dont like the fact that you let the situation get to this in the first place. Raise and chase out the ace rags, or low pocket pairs, or give them the wrong odds to call at least.

Unless of course you are confident of your flop play, in which case fine. Flat call and play it from there, but bear in mind that if you get a couple more callers you will be in a horrible mid position to act.

[sl0ggs]

Have to agree with TPAK there... Raise it up with that hand pre-flop, especially in the early position and behind the two folds... that's the only way to know where you really are IMO. Any call behind your flat call tells you nothing and a raise could be a steal, or if mr small stack raises you, it'll give you more of an idea of where you're both at... (and a chance to fold to the risk of being outdrawn if you choose)

[barbarian]

You're right it's best to raise here, i was just mixing my play a little.

If one of the big stacks calls, then unless another 9 hits the flop you will have probably have to outplay them to win the pot

That's the plan when i limp here, it's making life more difficult for myself but i would only do it rarely and it has value purely for the fact that it keeps people guessing.

[sl0ggs]

That's the plan when i limp here, it's making life more difficult for myself but i would only do it rarely and it has value purely for the fact that it keeps people guessing.

...fair point, and you need to keep that choice to limp occassionally, with a raising hand, to an absolute minimum, for this exact reason. Unlucky.

You know that if you'd have told us you raised big pre-flop and put someone all-in and got the call (with the same hand), that we would tell you that you did the right thing whether you won it or lost it! Lol

[bigwozman]

not sure he did do wrong it this situation, 99 aint a great hand and at that level if he raises he may get the callers he don't want.

better to call and get the pot odds for trips.