A couple of tournament hands
These are a couple of hands from a live game last night where I never really got going.
9 handed,150/300 blinds. 3 limpers to me in the SB and I raise looking to pick up the pot there but get one caller. Pot is 3500, flop comes K Q x and I bet 2500 and get min-raised. I've got ~6000 left and have KT. I folded, anyone play it differently post-flop?
6 handed, 400/800. I have just over 10k. Folded to me on the button I make it 2200 with QJs and the BB calls. He bets out 2200 on a flop of A Q x and I call, turn is a blank and he sets me all-in and I fold. The call on the flop was awful here IMO.
Next hand folded to me in the CO with about 6k and I jam with A9, BB wakes up with JJ and calls, flop comes 8 J 8, turn a 3rd 8 giving me 1 out and I didn't hit it. Not sure about my play on this hand, I need to chip up pretty fast to have any real shot at winning as the structure started to get fast around this point. Only other line would be raising to ~2k and folding to a raise and I don't like that idea much.
Any opinions on these hands? I need to really improve playing with a short stack, I think it's the weakest part of my tournament play and when I get off to a slow start I need to be able to recover better than I do at the moment. Any general ideas/theories on playing a short stack?
9 handed,150/300 blinds. 3 limpers to me in the SB and I raise looking to pick up the pot there but get one caller. Pot is 3500, flop comes K Q x and I bet 2500 and get min-raised. I've got ~6000 left and have KT. I folded, anyone play it differently post-flop?
I would have played it pretty much the same, if anything the only thing I would change is the size of the bet, I think 2000 would have done here. Its a
big enough bet to find out where you are. Looks like you walked into a big hand here and you did well to get away from it without going broke, especially after catching top pair on the flop. A lot of times you would have been up against a caller with a weak ace and your post flop bet would have made them fold quickly.
6 handed, 400/800. I have just over 10k. Folded to me on the button I make it 2200 with QJs and the BB calls. He bets out 2200 on a flop of A Q x and I call, turn is a blank and he sets me all-in and I fold. The call on the flop was awful here IMO.
Preflop you played the hand well and I like the size of the raise a lot. Getting a caller from the blinds and then having an ace hitting the flop is a nightmare, especially when you dont have one. I dont like the call here, I would prefer to fold and and be left with 8000 chips and wait for a stronger position to put my chips in.
Next hand folded to me in the CO with about 6k and I jam with A9, BB wakes up with JJ and calls, flop comes 8 J 8, turn a 3rd 8 giving me 1 out and I didn't hit it. Not sure about my play on this hand, I need to chip up pretty fast to have any real shot at winning as the structure started to get fast around this point. Only other line would be raising to ~2k and folding to a raise and I don't like that idea much.
I would have done exactly the same here, A9 is the hand I went out of the freeroll on monday with, I was in the CO too and YOU had AJ, its just bad timing, most times you will pick up the blinds and have a healthier stack. You got to push your chips in with A9, you cant make it cheap for people to call and then get lucky on the flop, especially after the two hands you have allready mentioned.
Any general ideas/theories on playing a short stack?
When shortstacked the only thing you can do is get aggressive. One move poker, all in. You are going to need to steal the blinds at least once every orb and hopefully double up if you get a call. The worst thing about being shortstacked is when it gets so low that you are going to be called just for value, you pick the right time, get your chips in with the best hand and lose but "thats poker"
The last two of these hands were against me, so I can't say too much!
Did you really expect to have all the limpers fold behind you after your steal attempt pre-flop? I have this in the back of my mind a lot when attempting to steal from LP with anything nowadays. Perhaps with a marginal starting hand 9 handed, it's possibly worth a limp most of the time? (with the occasional steal attempt thrown in to mix it up) As for post-flop, perhaps they had decided to play the hand aggressively post-flop regardless of flop? I'd almost put your opponent on the same hand as yourself? (top pair and a middle kicker, with them willing to find out where they really are with an overly aggressive play?) I certainly would have raised as you did though, dunno what I'd have done in the face of the re-raise... probably the same as you.Originally Posted by FirePhil
You might be being a bit harsh on yourself here... you are out of position after the flop after all... with the upper hand from my position and your call, I had to push it (it barely even matters what I had to do this IMO).
...ouch! It sounds worse now than it felt at the time... Definitely the right move to jam, even with those few free hands to come to you next (which doesn't guarantee you anything). You were either going to take the blinds down, or have a decent chance with the top card... I'd have done the very same thing myself.
I don't think you did that much wrong to be honest, got unlucky though.
<stating the obvious>
Generally when short stacked you want to contest pots against only one player (which you did in your examples of course), unless you have the nuts of course, so big raises to show your commitment are surely good? (without the nuts it must be a bad idea to try slow playing anything in this position?). With your starting hand requirements lower, picking a good hand from the chaff before getting blinded out is the priority! Not that you always get a chance, nor can you be all that patient.
It's tough!
I had some similar decisions later in the game when you'd left, and in the end got rivered after jamming with 5's pre-flop...
What do you know about your opponent and what position did he limp call from? I assume he is in an earlyish positon. The play here really depends on your read of your oppoent and the size of his stack. The only hand's I think you are fearing is KQ, KJ or bottom set. He could also have JT, a weak king, QT QJ type hands or air. From your posts it seems like you do like to steal from the SB, does he know this? In the absance of any infomation I also fold here.9 handed,150/300 blinds. 3 limpers to me in the SB and I raise looking to pick up the pot there but get one caller. Pot is 3500, flop comes K Q x and I bet 2500 and get min-raised. I've got ~6000 left and have KT. I folded, anyone play it differently post-flop?
This one was against Sloggs? You probably have the best hand!!6 handed, 400/800. I have just over 10k. Folded to me on the button I make it 2200 with QJs and the BB calls. He bets out 2200 on a flop of A Q x and I call, turn is a blank and he sets me all-in and I fold. The call on the flop was awful here IMO.
Well played.Next hand folded to me in the CO with about 6k and I jam with A9, BB wakes up with JJ and calls, flop comes 8 J 8, turn a 3rd 8 giving me 1 out and I didn't hit it. Not sure about my play on this hand, I need to chip up pretty fast to have any real shot at winning as the structure started to get fast around this point. Only other line would be raising to ~2k and folding to a raise and I don't like that idea much.
Don't fear going bust.Any opinions on these hands? I need to really improve playing with a short stack, I think it's the weakest part of my tournament play and when I get off to a slow start I need to be able to recover better than I do at the moment. Any general ideas/theories on playing a short stack?
I've never played this player before but he seemed pretty solid and had chipped up a fair bit. This was only the 2nd pre-flop raise I'd made and he'd never played against me before so I can't see him putting me squarely on a steal, though he may have picked up that I'm pretty LAG from the table talk. The only min-raise I'd seen him make was with the nuts on the river. He did comment after the hand that he had much better than bottom set, not sure what to make of that from a player I don't know. QQ and KK waiting for a non-ace flop was possible here, maybe even AA. Big pot to fold to a min-raise though.
Yeah, thats why I hate my call - definately jam or fold here IMO. Calling achieved nothing, just pissing chips away.This one was against Sloggs? You probably have the best hand!!
Looking at it again it's the only option really.
lol, I don't think that's ever been an issue for me.
Probably wasn't the best spot to steal in, I'd been card dead for the first 2 levels and was just a bit over eager to win a pot I think. Saying that I was pretty sure that the BB would fold as would 2 of the limpers but wasn't sure about the 3rd - he called
I was OTB and you were the BB so I had position. If I was deeper then the call might not have been too bad but I really didn't have enough chips left to re-evaluate on the turn. If I'd had 20k rather than 6k you probably slow down with a marginal hand and I can try to pick up the pot on the turn if I think you're weak. Calling off 25% of your chips leaving yourself less than the size of the pot holding middle pair is just bad poker. As it was I think pushing the flop was probably the best play here.
I totally agree with this. Deeper I really quite like a call but given the stack sizes I think it's a push. That flop has a good context for a preflop raiser and Sloggs play looks to me like he thinks you are stealing. With a hand he likes I think he check raises you all in rather than leading half pot.
Another question which comes out of this - if you push, what sort of hand does Sloggs need to call? I think he re raises you preflop with most of them and I don't think he takes a little Ace or second pair to the felt. Even if he does call with an ace then you still have 5 outs.
I should add that I am not specifcally talking about Slogg's game here. It could be someone else taking the same line and my advice would still be the same, although knowing it's sloggs would make my decision a little easier.
...of course, my bad!
I think what I meant was that I wanted to get you all in or all out at that point, which I could do from there. After the flop raise I was expecting you to jam or go away (because of your chip stack), so I felt I had to force you to make the decision on the turn... maybe I had already made my hand? But your call didn't tell me anything much about yours, other than you weren't sure you were ahead? Risky sometimes, but it's poker...(That's why I said before that I thought it didn't really matter what hand I had at that point)
I won't say too much more about the specific hand. I'm improving and learning all the time, so want to keep mixing it up and trying things out. I thoroughly enjoyed that game, even with getting rivered near the end (god knows I've done it to others enough times...
Looking forward to the next one... and to when Woody is back to further analyse my game... (which all helps with the learning
Cheers
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