pocket pairs

[trustme]

Went out of two tournaments in a minute last night, one with AA, the next with KK. AA lost to a queen high straight, i went all in and got called by 10 Q, what can you do! Kings lost to an ace rag, not ideal but fair enough. My question is not what to do with high pairs, im going to stick to what i normally do because it usually pays off well, i just wanted to get away with a sneaky moan about bad beats.

Its the low and middle pairs that Im wondering how people play. For me its a limp in hand from early to mid position, if i hit trips on the flop I want to get paid , if not i will get out. Late position its worth a raise to try and pick up the blinds and i'll have a few outs if im called.

Im pretty sure that this is the way to play them but more and more im coming across players that will call, 5x the blind raises or even all ins with any pair seeing it as a made hand.

Give me your thoughts, i really want to know if you are going to call big raises with pairs in the hope of hitting two outs, mainly talking about pairs from 2-9

[PokerWoody]

I think low pairs (22-77 certainly and probably up to 99) are the most mis played hands in tournement poker. They are generally unplayable but people see the pro's going all in with them on the TV so assume them to be good hands.

How you play them, or indeed if you play them, depends entirley on the size of your stack. Very simply put - when low stacked go all in, when deepstacked try to make a set (ie call a small raise), fold all other times. ALWAYS have a flop plan before you play the hand and these hands become much simpler to play. Generally I think limping with these hands is not a good plan unless you are playing in a very passive game or you don't play well post flop.

[sl0ggs]

ALWAYS have a flop plan before you play the hand and these hands become much simpler to play.

Great piece of advice! It takes the pressure out of your post flop decision if you've already decided how far you're prepared to go with the starting hand...

...the key then though, is sticking to your decision. Discipline is one part of the game that I found really hard when starting out...!

[DannyC]

Even with pocket A's I wouldn't be going all in, tis only top pair, even after the flop stage, maybe a straight draw, but your only really looking @ tip A's, or 4 of a kind, or straight A high.

I'd say around 96% of newbies or amateurs to poker go all in or raise big bets because they have the two highest cards in there hands, they forget about the other 8 hands other people could make with their cards, it only takes someone with pocket 2's and a 2 come out to beat ya!

Next time ya get KK or AA take ya time, there's MANY a time I've folded pocket A's and K's and Q's because the flop was shite, would've been beat too when I've seen the hand finished!

[John Holmes' Stunt C**K]

But Danny, you're basing that assumption that someone is going to call an all-in with a pair of 2's. The problem I find when holding pocket Aces is that after the flop there is almost certainly going to be something on to tempt another caller, and hence put you off. The amount of times i've had my aces busted by someone catching a Str!!

I prefer to call all-in, at least this should stop those who may call a 4*BB raise with connectors, etc.

At least you know that you are the pre-flop favourite holding aces. after the flop your advantage, if any, is unknown

[DannyC]

But John, this would result in either a small pot or limited play, if you have or want to bluff you have the best hand then check or small raise, or at least make it LOOK like your bluffing even though you aren't?

Poker isn't just 2 sided IMHO, 1) You have the nut hand 2) bluffing

in my eyes, there's 1, 2 but also 3) Nut hand but bluffing 3) fuck all and smashing the bets. By smashing the bets I mean take your time from pre-flop to turn card watching other peoples actions checking or raising? Then whack a massive bet down and hope they wont call.

There's probably 5 million other ways to play, and I play different each hand so people can't follow me, but I've seen AA get thrown even pre-fop on some occasions. It only rank of card, but not rank of hand, like you said I would be too scared of someone flipping a straight with a 4,6 and you've just lost your all in with AA

[John Holmes' Stunt C**K]

Yeh, i'm not disagreeing you with the roots of your arguement, obviously if you're sitting on BB, and everyone before you calls, its worth raising. Where as if you're heads up, you'd be mad to scare him off.

I just prefer sometimes to risk winning just the small blind, as opposed to drawing in more players and getting busted.

You sound a decent player, as there's rarely an occasional when i'd fold rockets

[PokerWoody]

There's probably 5 million other ways to play, and I play different each hand so people can't follow me, but I've seen AA get thrown even pre-fop on some occasions. It only rank of card, but not rank of hand, like you said I would be too scared of someone flipping a straight with a 4,6 and you've just lost your all in with AA

You should never be folding AA preflop. The only time it is right to do so is in a saterlite where you have a couple of shortstacks who will be all in very soon so you can just fold your way to qualification. There are no other situations ever where folding Aces preflop is the correct move. Ever.

[Terminator]

I completely agree, I mean, why are they folding A-A? What's beating them pre-flop? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! If they're not going to play A-A, then what hands are they going to play?

[DannyC]

You should never be folding AA preflop. The only time it is right to do so is in a saterlite where you have a couple of shortstacks who will be all in very soon so you can just fold your way to qualification. There are no other situations ever where folding Aces preflop is the correct move. Ever.

How many times you play poker a month? Once? Try 1 live game a day, and maybe 3-4 hours online everyday, you will see how easy it is to throw AA pre-flop, I didn't say there was an excuse to throw AA pre-flop but I've seen it done.