Betvoyager - no house edge? how to calculate?

**Grumpie** · 13th June 2011, 04:58 PM

hello there..
i just stumbled upon this casino called betvoyager and they advertise games with "no house edge" but apparently they take some 10% commission when you try to cash out.

my question: is there a "simple" way to calculate how this 10% translates to a "hidden house edge" so to speak?

because if this turns out to be less than the normal edge, i might give the site a try

**Johnny's Amusements** · 13th June 2011, 05:12 PM

Sounds like a pretty shit deal. Casino games usually have a small house edge (2% up to 5%) so a 10% deduction means a 10% house edge! In 2 words NO DEAL.

**Grumpie** · 13th June 2011, 05:24 PM

errr, you sure? i mean, nobody would advertise 10% house edge, or would they?

i know there is a way to calculate it, but im really not into math

just know that its NOT 10% house edge

**Johnny's Amusements** · 13th June 2011, 05:26 PM

I have been thinking about this. It is a very shit deal. Take this example.
You have £200 to play with & decide to have only 2 bets on roulette. You decide to bet £100 on red both times. The first time you lose, but the second time you win. i.e. the 50/50 probability chance (excluding zero) comes in once out of two spins. You then cash out your £200 but only get £180 which is a 90% payback even although you have beaten the odds!
Can you now see how bad a deal this actually is?

**Grumpie** · 13th June 2011, 05:37 PM

i´ll have a look at it again and tell you, what i found out. btw: they have "no rake" poker and i already did a quick calculation for that and let me tell you: you save tons of money with their system compared to paying rake. so i wondered, if their casino was pretty much the same

i forgot to mention: it´s 10% on WINNINGS, not total cashout. so in your example, you would either pay NOTHING or just 10% on the 100 you won, which is just 5% effective. still more than normal, but just to set things into perspective

**Johnny's Amusements** · 13th June 2011, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Grumpie

i´ll have a look at it again and tell you, what i found out. btw: they have "no rake" poker and i already did a quick calculation for that and let me tell you: you save tons of money with their system compared to paying rake. so i wondered, if their casino was pretty much the same

i forgot to mention: it´s 10% on WINNINGS, not total cashout. so in your example, you would either pay NOTHING or just 10% on the 100 you won, which is just 5% effective. still more than normal, but just to set things into perspective

Slightly better deal. Oh, & welcome to the forum. It is nice to have a gambler for a change rather than a spammer!

**Grumpie** · 13th June 2011, 05:48 PM

thx for warm welcome, i´m not used to getting answers THAT quick

**scepticus** · 14th June 2011, 02:56 AM

hi Grumpie
I agree with J.A. on this.It's a bad deal.
I look at it like this.
You bet £1 on one number on each spin over 36 spins - which is £ 36 .Your expectation is one win in 36 spins so you bet £36 and win £36 minus 10% which leaves you with £32.40 - a loss of £3.60.
J.A. bets the same amount £1 on one number over 37 spins.So he bets a total of £37.His expectation is also one win -but over 37 spins and not 36 spins.So he bets £37 and receives £36- a loss of £1.
Not being a mathematician , however , I could be wrong. But I don't think so.
Furthermore, our wins and losses don't run on tram lines . We have winning sequences and losing sequences so, during your winning sequences you would win less than J.A. and benefit little during losing spells because you would have few wins
Picking winning numbers is the crucial thing in roulette.The slight variation in odds
is of little consequence.Ignore "The Long Run ".We won't live long enough for the Law of Large Numbers ( the Law of Averages ) to have any effect.
Avoid the lure of No Edge.J.A is right .If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is.
And the Best Of Luck in your punting !

**Grumpie** · 14th June 2011, 02:08 PM

i just don´t think, that somebody would offer a deal as bad as this and still expect ppl to play there

**scepticus** · 15th June 2011, 01:09 AM

Hi Grumpie
But they do ! And they do because they are using psychology.
Some punters are so hung up about zero that they feel more comfortable at a table at which there is no zero - even at worse odds.At least Betvoyager are upfront about it so punters are free to choose.
If you would feel more comfortable at a table without a zero then go for it.It's your money .It's your choice
Basically, all that J.A. and myself are saying is that we think it best to bet where you get the best deal - and in our view it ain't Betvoyager !