[DannyC]

oooook, have to take a breath for this one.

This has been analysed and threaded before big debates all over the shop, but this is a direct thread for this topic.

AWP (amusement with prizes), are the definitive of the UK gambling industry, its what we all talk about on this forum, its what were 'into', for some a hobby, some a living and for some a habit. When you look at AWPs with discipline, you see the light, you get the hints, when your computer literate it helps alot in understanding how these things work.

Forget the history, lets go back to the release of the new MPU which was MPU5. MPU4 and earlier units were eventually cracked and emulated on a standard PC using the rom chips which are inside the machines which contains the functioning, engine and programming directives of how the machine works all in all. Its the control unit.

AWP's are just like a computer with restriction, someone(s) has sat there, drawn up the project and developed the code for a certain machine, and majority of code that is developed, whether in ASM, C++, BASIC, PASCAL or any other compiled language, can (not always easily) reverse engineered.

When i look at an AWP machine, I dont see flashy lights like the ones with the 'habit' do, I dont enjoy the experience of a certain game as a hobby, and I dont have the time to make a living off it because im more profitable at what I do, probably 10x more profitable than what 'pros' could probably make. Because Im a geek (admittedly) myself, I weigh each machine and its clones up, I discuss with other members of this forum and local players, and there's a few on this forum who I can get technical with and have some good conversations with regarding the technology. SO when I look at an AWP as many others, I see the technology, I look for bugs, I keep a close ear to whats going on, and we manipulate the machines in any way shape or form to gain advantage over them. I have never and never would condone using any physical methods such as rodding etc. but whats wrong with taking advantage of bugged code? If there's an bug in an AWP which can strongly be taken advantage of (using discipline again) your in for a right treat, and the best thing is, its not illegal and most of the times its not noticable because your playing the 'end product' in a public place on its compiled version.

AWP's by law are on a percentage, usually between 72-84% throughout the pubs in the UK, and this percentage is not based on any kind of actual statistic specifically. If a machine is set at 72% this does not mean for every £100 you put in you can expect £72 back... the catch is, the 72% is over the duration that particular machine is in place in that establishment.

S16's (Section 16) machines are usually higher percentages, but if you understand all the above, you might start to understand that even though a machine is at 94%, it will actually throw low value wins out quiet often to balance its %. With the stakes being higher (£500) etc. to obtain a jackpot from an s16 would take longer hours standing at the machine than a AWP. The disadvantage to AWP is the feature board and the amount of gambling you do. For example, you roll in 3 cherries, you get to gamble that prize up the cash stack to exchange for feature board, you can gamble feature boards by continuing around it refusing to take wins, you can skillstop yourself on LOSE, all these factors make a huge difference when manipulating an AWPS percentage, because beyond original belief, while this 'gambling' phase was all about 'do i go round the board one more time or collect before it kills me' crap which is what the ones with 'habits and hobbyists' think, was actually flipped around on the manus, because its actual US who has control. On an S16 machine you spin>you win. You cant knockback 5 jackpots in a row can you?
See by doing this to an AWP, the machine thinks jackpot knocked back, hmm offer another one soon, when you knock back 3-4 JPs on a machine, it goes mental... it thinks wtf? the Norm says... you collect jackpot right? WRONG.
Knocking back a few jackpots and pumping more money in actually knocks the percentage WAY back, now the machines going into 'sick mode'. If the machine contains a 'streak' feature such as 'mega streak' you can be sure this is going to be brought into play and when it does, its going to streak BIG, why? Because the 3 jackpots its just offered you wouldve knocked back the %, but because you refused and put more money in, the mega streak that you do eventually collect has to somehow get the percentage back to normal.

Now, even in this scenario, each machines profile is programmed differently, some machines Mega Streak might just give you an £85 mega streak, other ways would be an MS for £25, then a few spins later an IM board, with maybe a JP repeat, its all the same to the machine just as long as its percentage gets leveled out. Now with new gameplays being created every year, and 5-6 different manu's now producing machines, this is why forums like this evolve, you find out by discussing, which manus to avoid (BellFruit) and which are the best downfallers for what we want to achieve.

After all this, you then move onto another topic of Online Slots. You cannot, TECHNICALLY compare ANY online slot to an S16 or AWP. Visually you can say they are 100% identical and gameplay too, but they are coded in completely different languages, they are compiled differently and online slots are usually using flash/java technology with alot of server/client side programming involved.

Now, from your statement above and in the previous thread, ( and no hard stab at you in this comment ) im starting to believe now that you are not looking beyond the 'circle', your not flying through the clouds, your not whistling the same tune, your not... you get it Because of the limited knowledge you hold on this subject, you dont see the full picture, only a 'punters' picture and thats not a stab at you or anyone else on this forum, im just explaining, thats what I think after reading your post.

You state:

£25 pub fruities; these are deliberately rigged to make them more interesting / exciting / addictive - they frequently go the the 'feature board' and take you tantalisingly close to that nice big win but then

exactly why WE are in control, NOT them, close to that big nice win? thats a good sign if anything, if its offering high features and cash stacks, its on the stage of nearing a jackpot.

This one I like:

But the main thing I'm saying about online slots is when the reels spin, where they stop is truly random. (Not on online 'UK Pub Fruity' types)

True, its truly random... to YOU its truly random, pre-determined from a 'random' number generated seed is 'truly' random, but not 100% random, search the forums for my topics on 'randomization' and cryptography.

AWP's are not truly random because the spin, 'just like s16's' is generated from an RNG seed, BUT the difference is, AWP's use different seeds, they have predefined 'sets' of seeds dependant on what percentage and state the machine is in so it knows what kinda of wins to roll in, an s16 RNG seed is like you say just a number generated 'randomly' between say 1-116,000 (as an example), BUT if that IS the case, and it is indeed truly 'RANDOM' as you say, why do these machines state a percentage? 94% is STILL a percentage, and in order for a machine coded specifically for one purpose to always keep around the 94% mark, there must be SOMETHING in the formula to enable it to do this, it would be against all mathematical and legal laws to say "well if you spin 10000 spins over 1 hour your bound to land a win from the RNG seed to balance its %" because if it was like in your eyes, 'random' then with the laws of randomness (lol) who's to say (RNG SEED number 2738 = no win) whos to say if it is random you cant spin in the number 2738 on each spin? THen 10000 spins you have won nothing because the 2738 value is a no win, and if indeed random, you should be law be able to hit that number 10000. Very unlikely but I hope my picture is being painted well.

Percentages mean nothing in the big picture, a % sticker on a machine only gives me the start of something, but as you can now hopefully see the pie is MUCH bigger, I hope to god I havent contradicted myself in all that, because i will officially become the 'twat of the year' on this forum if I have

My overall point is, you can compare online slots to awps, awps to s16s without knowing the technicalities of it all, All you have said to me in that previous post is how you can compare 'visually' and on percentage, and in my book you can debate the point just on those 2 factors.

Now im just awaiting Mr Elsworthys reply